Pyro laws

[allymoss]

I have done a search, spent approx 1 hour reading through all pyro stuff

 

We have a battle of the Bands at our school we are calling operation BOB

Anyway, for the winner, they will do an encore and all the bands are rock/metal so we thought some small silver gerbs would be good. We have a small LeMaitre kit, with 3 pods.

 

With the new EU directive coming in sometime and "grey" areas of law, I would like to do a check as I have been requested to do, especially regarding safety, as in any public place, is taken very seriously. The reason I am posting this even though it may be similar to other posts is because I know the law is changing and this event is in early December and if anything will change before then

 

We have a premises license for holding public events

We have all appropriate fire equipment.

We have someone over the age of 18 who knows what they are doing when it comes to organising and firing pyros.

We can do an extremely detailed risk assesment

 

Is this all we need to fire small 1.5 metre gerbs indoors??

 

We know about safety of firing pyros and have read that pyros on stage can be LEGALLY fired by someone under 18 as long as they know what they are doing. This is obviously going against advice from EVERYONE, I would just like to know if this is true.

 

I would like to know if there is anything else, that is needed for a school to do before using pyros.

Also, any places to buy cheapish small silver gerbs would be useful. I found a JP leisure which are not to expensive. HSL sell them aswell but they are a bit of a rip off!

[gareth]

We have someone over the age of 18 who knows what they are doing when it comes to organising and firing pyros.

In that case, that person should know the answers to all the questions that you posed in your post. If they don't, they've been having you on, and they don't actually know as much about organising and firing pyro as they might like you to think ...

[allymoss]

I mean safety wise, they have been briefed, never done it but have been to shows back stage with pyro guy, not really involved with setting up, but everyone has a 1st time

[gareth]

We have someone ... who knows what they are doing when it comes to organising and firing pyros.

{but they have} never done it {before}

[allymoss]

like I said, everyone has first time, and he has been around pyros before but never in charge. Is there anyone out there who wants to help me rather than questions people ability that they don't know!

[CPlater1]

quick reader if you do read it all in an hour - there is a load out there. If I were you, I would not have someone firing pyros for the first time with people around. Also I assume you are doing this in your school, which means the school's public liability insurance etc may not cover you. also remember adequate ventilation is needed

[gareth]

like I said, everyone has first time

Yes, they do - and that first time should be in the company of someone who has done it before, so that appropriate guidance and supervision can be provided. You asked for advice, and that's my advice - don't get all shirty just because you posted a question on a publicly-accessible forum and don't like one of the anwers. I've been working in the business for almost as long as you've been alive, and I do know what I'm talking about - whether or not you choose to listen to my advice is up to you. But if you don't want to risk getting answers that you might not want, don't post the question.

[allymoss]

I acknowledge your post.That person will have a couple of test fires a few days before, we will be able to see exactly how they will fit into our stage. Obviously we have plans but until we see some fired we cant fully work out how they will go with lights etc.Pyros have been fired in this hall before about 2 years ago. Can someone please answer the original question. We KNOW about the safety hazards and it is our main priority!Ok, thanks gareth, just read your post after I posted one above, you must have posted while I was typing. I will see if I can get hold of the guy that did it before but probably not going to happen. That would be an idea situation. Safety is a massive part of any show even more so with pyros around but PLEASE, is there anything else we must do.

[mark_s]

Check about smoke/heat detectors. I recently did the lighting design for a show at a secondary school (that shall remain nameless) which used a lot of pyro for a production of The Wiz, and whilst everything was perfectly safe with regards to clearance from flammable things and people and we had a competent person firing them, the school refused to disable the relevant zone for the smoke detectors on the basis of it invalidating their insurance. The solution they chose instead was to have someone standing by to disable the alarm as it went off, and to warn the audience of false alarms before the show. During one performance there were 5 false alarms . And I'd like to not think what would have happened if a real fire had set off an alarm somewhere else which was 'cancelled' accidentally.

 

And I agree with gareth; whilst everyone has a first time, a real show isn't the place for it in my opinion. And 'test firing' isn't really useful experience, because he won't have to worry about any of the issues that he will during a show. I hope that common sense prevails over the 'show must go on' attitude eventually, or if not that you don't have a serious accident during the run...

[Brian]

We have a premises license for holding public events

Good but does it allow the use of pyro? And on a similar note does your 'Fire Risk Assessment' cover their use?

 

We have all appropriate fire equipment.

Good.

 

We have someone over the age of 18 who knows what they are doing when it comes to organising and firing pyros.

In view of other posts I'll skip this one.

 

We can do an extremely detailed risk assesment

But will it be 'satisfactory and sufficient'?

 

Is this all we need to fire small 1.5 metre gerbs indoors??

Public Liability Insurance? Employers Liability Insurance?

 

We know about safety of firing pyros and have read that pyros on stage can be LEGALLY fired by someone under 18 as long as they know what they are doing. This is obviously going against advice from EVERYONE, I would just like to know if this is true.

As a question in isolation then the answer is 'maybe'. HOWEVER, I can think of several scenarios which would make it illegal.

 

I would like to know if there is anything else, that is needed for a school to do before using pyros.

TBH, they are much safer ways of making a more spectacular effect. 1.5 metre gerbs have their place but, unless you are going to use lots of them, can look a bit weak.

[allymoss]

Markss: Thanks for the info, apparently we don't have fire alarms above stage and in hall but that has to be wrong when you think about it. I will remember this!

 

How do we test pyros not in show? I am being told the guy must have experience, not to fire first time during show with people but dont do a test fire?? Do you mean do some in rehearsal?

 

 

Brian

 

1. Not sure but will check our license. We have used pyros before.

Our risk assessment will be extremely detailed and sufficient

Public liability license and employers liability insurance, as I said before, we used pyros but will re check

Under 18's firing pyros, we are not using an under 18 to fire but would be interesting to know if this is allowed

I have had a look for some gerbs and seen some 3-4m ones which we are more likely to use. 1 or perhaps 2 either side of the band when they are playing.

[mark_s]

I mean that test firing doesn't really count as experience, as during a test fire you don't have to worry about any of the issues that arise during a show, such as clearance from actors. I don't know about other people, but I'd be very nervous standing on a stage acting whilst knowing that there was someone about to fire a pyro for their first time in a show, without supervision from anyone with experience.

 

Edit:

And be very careful regarding the height of the effect and the height of your venue. Goes without saying really, but make sure you follow all the guidelines from the manufacturer.

[allymoss]

Definately agree MarkS,

 

I know what you mean, in the weeks coming up to the show, we are going to sit down with all the bands performing deciding whether they want pyros and how and when they want them. If they don't want them, we won't do them.

 

Height of effect is also very important, we have a clearance of about 5.5m before the first item which happens to be a source 4 par. If we can do them off the front of the stage which has a much larger clearance. Guidelines will be followed explicitly.

 

Thanks for your help

[kerry davies]

Hi;

This thread is getting confusing.

You say you have fired pyros in the past yet the person firing has never done it "live". Why not get the previous, assumedly competent, firer to do it again?

You say that a "detailed and sufficient" risk assessment will be completed. But which person competent in the use of pyros will create the RA?

There are dozens of questions regarding effects of all kinds, such as how do you stop the bands standing on them? What risks will be brought in by the bands? Do you really, really need pyros? and the killer one, as far as insurance companies are concerned: is there something safer and why wasn't it used?

Yes, I know I'm a killjoy but please go and get some supervised experience from a competent source before using any unfamiliar equipment amongst the public. At least then you will know how to get the best effects from their use, having seen them "live" with a real audience in real conditions.

Good Luck

Kerry

[Wuddy]

I would advise exteme caution with pyro if your not familiar with it.

 

I've fired hundreds of effects mostly laMaitre small theatrical flash because I do a lot of pantos in small venues.

 

Even after doing all the RAs I had one frightening experience when a prop plastic beer glass had been dropped on stage about eighten inches away from the pyro (small theatrical flash) apart from that the stage was clear and I deemed it safe to fire.

 

The flash ignited the plastic glass, I could not believe it.

 

As part of my RAs I always appoint a fire marshall and he was able to promptly deal with it.

 

I would advise firing a couple of your effects in open air to gain an idea of how they behave and then determine a safe mounting position in the venue and then do a test firing in the venue with all cast and crew present so that they all know exactly what is going to happen

 

Also to bear in mind that stage areas usually accumulate a lot dust, hair, fibres etc which are highly flamable and it is advisable to vacuum up in the firing zone.

 

But I suppose you've got all this in YOUR RAs