Pyro laws

[allymoss]

Kerry Davies:

Pyros have been fired on that stage before fairly recently but the person that is firing has been to live shows and has learnt tips from experienced pyro people

I have got a template risk assessment from LeMaitre and I have done them before for different things, not pyros but have read through LeMaitre guidelines for them.

To stop the band stepping on them, they are either going to be on a separate platform to where the band perform or they will be clearly marked with bright colours of tape and the bands will all have been briefed on them. We might even put glow sticks around them, just an idea.

Does any event really need pyros, it is an effect to make the performance more real and just adds to the effect.

As I said before, we will be doing test fires before hand with noone around so we can see exact size and shape so the pyro firer can see what he is firing and so I can sync the lights with them.

 

Wuddy:

We will do a test fire with no one around then a couple with cast/crew around so everyone knows EXACTLY what will happen.

We are only using small gerbs perhaps some reduced height silver jets from LeMaitre.

Thanks for the advice on vacuuming the ground and air etc

We have someone nearby with fire extinguishers to jump in if anything goes wrong.

 

I know what I have written doesnt sound very professional, e.g. "jumo in if anything goes wrong" but we take safety into account just as much as you guys do

 

Our RA will be explicit in every aspect, it will be done on the day and cover everything. There will be 3 people doing it so we won't miss anything.

[Brian]

... the person that is firing has been to live shows and has learnt tips from experienced pyro people.

Now this is getting scary.

 

I've been to live shows and have chatted to riggers but I would never in a million years consider myself competent to sling truss above an audience.

 

Either the person who is going to deal with the pyro is competent or not and if they are then it is them who should be doing the risk assessment and planning the effects.

 

I have got a template risk assessment from LeMaitre and I have done them before for different things, not pyros but have read through LeMaitre guidelines for them.

But have you been trained in the use of pyro? Template risk assessment are all well and good but are only a starting point. The last (venue supplied) pyro risk assessment I completed ran to 30 or so pages.

 

...they will be clearly marked with bright colours of tape and the bands will all have been briefed on them.

This is a school battle of the bands right? Do you really think that in the heat of the moment the performers will take any notice of a piece of tape on the floor?

 

... and just adds to the effect.

But there are plenty of effect which are less risky which look just as good if not better.

 

... so we won't miss anything.

Bet you will ;)

[Wuddy]

And here's a Golden Rule for the guy who's going to press the fire button,

 

DON'T look at the button, NEVER take your eyes off the stage, in that split second when you look away, the situation on a live stage can change enourmously, if anyone has moved into your exclusion areas, you DO NOT fire the pyro, even if the Director or SM are screaming in your ear, you are in charge, pressing that button at the wrong time could maim someone for life, you don't want that on your conscience, do you?

[GridGirl]

Pyros have been fired on that stage before fairly recently but the person that is firing has been to live shows and has learnt tips from experienced pyro people

 

Yes, but has the person who is firing them gone through an entire pyro set-up, from design through RAs to firing, with an experienced pyro person watching their every step, to correct issues before they turn into problems? I wouldn't count anyone as "competent" until they were able to go through that process many times in succession without needing the experienced person to step in (or had gone through an approved course, but that's not the issue here!).

[andy jackson]

" bright colours of tape and the bands will all have been briefed on them. We might even put glow sticks around them, just an idea."

 

Dont want to seem like I'm jumping on a band wagon but, I wouldn't strap anything to them. Ever. Full stop.

And make sure your tape is fireproof, like Gaf-fire or use aluminuim (sp?) tape.

 

Cheerie-o

[paulears]

I've done it, many times over 30 odd years, and still HATE it every time.

 

Unless the circumstances are absolutely controlled, and from what you're saying, yours won't be - then the risk (from a strangers perspective) is too high.

 

Starting your career with a CV with "Burned somebody with a pyro - but they shouldn't have moved there just as I pressed the button" is not a good move - is it?

 

A live, possibly out of control show is not the place for first pyro lessons! Maybe in a straight play, panto, ultra-rehearsed music event, where you can have proper time to practice, then all is well. How many pyros have you set aside to practice with? and will you be having a proper run-through with the people on stage so they can see what is too happen, and then be able to repeat it to cope with the requests that they were too close, too weak, not at the right time etc?

 

Has your TEACHER completed the risk assessment showing he/she is happy with what they are responsible for - and signed the form? If they have, then off you go - the fallout is on their heads whatever you do - but let's take this to a sad ultimate end. Somebody gets burned, the teacher is up in court, and produces a transcript of this topic. Even when people are less than 18, courts may take the decision that they are in part, responsible - especially if hazards have been aired publically. The teacher's legal team would no doubt want to offset some blame to somebody else - and that person is..... YOU!

 

Pyros still give me the willies everytime I hit the damn button. I am not joking but I still get that roller coater feeling until I see everyone safe. There always seems in education and amateur productions such a lack of discipline and understanding from everyone that makes pyro scary!

 

How many times do you see the carefully taped off, very visible pod disappearing under the skirt of some idiot dancer - and then saying on cans in a loud voice "DO NOT - DO NOT Fire the pyro" because you can't be certain the person with the button hasn't noticed!

[Wuddy]

Pyros still give me the willies everytime I hit the damn button. I am not joking but I still get that roller coater feeling until I see everyone safe.

 

I'm with you on that one Paul, hitting the fire button on a pyro is not like hitting the GO button for a lighting or sound cue, you can't fade it out or stop it if it's wrong and the consequences of a miss-fired pyro could be very serious.

[Frag_Me]

Pyros are a pain to work with - if you get into a situation where it might be unsafe there is no option other than to abort the cue and isolate it. You feel like you've let the team down a bit (especially those with no pyro experience/clue), but at the end of the day it's a small price to pay for keeping people safe. I'd happily miss every cue and look a fool to avoid injuring someone with a pyro, there's no question about it.

[allymoss]

Right, first off thanks for the replies.

Second, I am aware of the safety issue, I have spoken with the organiser today, they want pyros to be a part of this event. We have worked out the control box is never more than 8m away from the furthest pyro. The person firing has had experience of working with pyros, me and the rest of the crew are working closely to insure they know what they are doing.

The RA has been given to them to fill out, and will be passed to the organiser to sign and date etc on the day of the event.

 

I do understand that you have to be 110% sure that it is safe to fire a pyro before you hit the fire button and this has been explained, and firing a pyro should not be a risk issue, if there is any sort of danger of someone going to near it or the pyro being positioned wrongly, they will not fire. We have 5/6 people on the cans, including the pyro firer, after all they will have the ultimate say.

 

The glow stick idea, they would not be on the pods, away each side to give a warning to anyone near. When we do our test fires, we will do some with no one nearby so we can establish:

What they look like, in relation to stage

How tall and wide they are so we can position them safely

How long they last

We will then do some tests with bands playing to make sure they know EXACTLY what is going on and make sure that in no part of their performance, do they go anywhere near the pods.

We have not got the pyros yet, as we don't want to store them for weeks but we don't know how many bands are performing yet, so cant determine how many we will buy but we will definitely get plenty to test with.

 

"if you get into a situation where it might be unsafe there is no option other than to abort the cue and isolate it. You feel like you've let the team down a bit (especially those with no pyro experience/clue), but at the end of the day it's a small price to pay for keeping people safe."

 

I have to say I couldn't agree more, and neither could the pyro firer. These pyros are taking more time than anything else in the show but even so, if they don't fire because someone is at risk of injuring themselves, the only people that will be disappointed is the audience.

 

We have some fire proof tape just for this purpose, kept with out pyroflash control box.

[gareth]

So yesterday your pyro op had never operated pyro effects before, and today they have experience.

We have someone ... who knows what they are doing when it comes to organising and firing pyros.

{but they have} never done it {before}

The person firing has had experience of working with pyros

Which is it? ;)

[mark_s]

Another thing you should probably think about is the talent themselves. During our production of The Wiz, we had several dress rehearsals before the show using the pyro, and yet during the first show several cast members still screamed/recoiled/etc, even though they were used to it. I get the feeling for some reason that you'll have less preparation and rehearsal time than us, so it is something you should definitely consider. It wouldn't be too cool if the pyro caused a band to mess up badly or something.

 

And for some reason I get the horrible feeling that allymoss is determined to use pyro, and is now changing the facts to suit him, having discarded all of our concerns. I have to say, between your posts here and in the Betapack tripping thread, you scare me ;)

[paulears]

We are talking Battle of the Bands, uncontrolled musicians, uncontrolled audience, no method of ensuring pyro safety that I can see - and best of all, LOUD MUSIC - so was that "GO pyro" or "NO pyro".

 

 

Everything in this topic is making us all say whoa, stop, hang on - and you simply ignor our comments. If you are so sure it is safe, you don't need our advice, and it's really rather pointless us trying to get you to reconsider when you have such a fixed mind on the matter.

 

I'm sure your experienced people will make it totally safe, and somebody will have the guts to sign it off, trusting you've got it right!

 

 

We are not trying to be negative - but not once have you given a single reason for pressing on with the project. You want pyros, so you will have them. We don't agree, and don't think it's safe - I doubt if you can now tell us anything that will let ss change our minds.

 

I'm happy to close the topic if members think it best, as we're going nowhere here.

Paul

[allymoss]

Hi, Gareth:

If you read the whole thing, I have explained, they have not fired pyros in show, but have worked with pyros and understand the concepts of pyros. He is reading this post aswell.

 

Mark s:

What do you mean ignored? I have read and taken in, passed on any info put on here. I have been told that pyros would be used and I was looking for info on them. We have time to rehearse and practice with the pyros, we are not using thunderflash type things so no bangs, just some mini gerbs and perhaps silver jets. Hopefully, the bands wont mind, and ASA I SAID BEFORE, we will speak to each band and ask them if they want pyros in their performance.

 

Paulears:

Thanks for your useful posts. We will have specific words that will not sound the same, e.g. GO and NO, more like Pyro is go, or abort pyro. My first question was not about safety! I was asking about the laws, what we would have to do to make it LEGAL. I appreciate ALL the comments about safety BUT I have found out what I wanted. If anyone has any advice for me like the thing about dust around pyros, fire proof tape, and different effects, I would love to hear it!

 

And yes, all the safety advice is being read and NOT ignored

[Wuddy]

Ok allymoss, I should put down the spade before you dig a hole so deep you'll never get out.

 

In your OP you infered that it was going to be a max of three small gerbs for the winners encore now its all the bands have a choice of pyro or no pyro.

 

What self respecting rock band is going to refuse the pyro given the choice.

 

The overwhelming concencous of opinion is that this is not the correct event for an amateurs first attempt with pyro but it seems that you or your superiors? (teachers?) are determined to have it.

 

At the end of the day someone has to do the RA and sign it off, surely that will be a member of the school staff and not a pupil, and such person will have to stand by the consequences.

[paulears]

Well worth a repeat link to a pretty scary video about what happens when pyro goes wrong

a .wmv video quite big

 

watch this and then convince yourself this could not happen.