niclights Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Hello! Time for first post. Looks like great forum. I have no idea why I haven't been here before! After a lengthy discussion with Pulsar today at Plasa, they suggested I came here and asked for feedback. I have been using the Chroma products since they became available but have always felt the control system is restrictive. Notably the lack of a dimmer channel for each individual output. I have been campaigning for the addition of these channels now for over a year, but it appears no-one else has mentioned it. I am looking for backup! Though this is not a problem for desks that have a 'virtual dimmer' function such as the 'hog, it is a problem with my poor old Pearl. I primarily need to be able to busk, but without the dimmer channels I must program playbacks to contain exact information which I can only guess at. This is very time consuming and offers no flexibility. I want to be able to use palettes, just as with other intelligent fixtures. I think it quite logical that LED products should be controllable in the same manner as other intelligent fixtures. But, since there is no actual dimmer required, it is understandable why some manufacturers only provide the minimum RGB control. Pulsar would rather the desks overcome this problem, but not all desks can! I have also discussed this with Avo, who have encountered this problem with many manufacturers. Some have responded by implementing the extra dimmer channel, others have not. So it is clear some understand the reasons and feel they are responsible whereas others either do not understand and/or feel this is the responsibility of the desk software. Something I was looking at closely at this years LED (...sorry, Plasa) Show :D Avo are looking into a 'virtual dimmer' option on the Pearl, but I can't help but think this will be too much extra processing. I am hoping others have encountered and understand this problem! All comments appreciated :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niclights Posted September 16, 2005 Author Share Posted September 16, 2005 Nobody? :) Maybe Pulsar were right.... ;) Appologies for bumping. Not something I normally do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 Hay NicLights and Welcome, I must say I have not used Croma Stuff with a pearl, but I do know what you mean as I have had it with other products.Best advice at this time of night is, use another desk, or sell the croma stuff and buy Pixel line as it has a master intensity option in the menu. I am aware this is rubbish advice, but thought I would say hi and welcome anyway.I will work on better ideas tomorrow when I can think straight again. Don. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niclights Posted September 16, 2005 Author Share Posted September 16, 2005 Hi & tnx for welcome! My reason for the post is to see if others agree, rather than to find solution. Pulsar make some unique (ish) LED products, but I want them to understand the importance of dimmer channels for use with 'moving light' type desks - ie. personalities/palettes etc. To be clear, I'm not looking for advice, just for backup It seems Pulsar have had no such feedback, and therefore are reluctant to invest resources in adjusting their software. They say the same thing - 'use a different desk' etc. I have reasons for using the Pearl, mainly that of familiarity for touring LD's and its traditional layout for those less experienced lampies... But this is beside the point! Interestingly, according to Avo, JTE did not originally implement the dimmer channel until they pointed out the problem. I told them to go and hassle Pulsar :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColourBlack Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 I know this doesn't exactly offer a solution, but if you use the Chromazone in 46 channel mode, you are given an intensity channel for controlling any Chromahearts connected to the Zone. Plus you still have the Effects channels, and the Global RGB control. The down side is that this is channel hungry. So what I do is make up looks with the 'Hearts', and use the intensity channel for Global control. I also then have the option of using the Zone RGB to add a base level to any chases I build with the hearts. Or, when using the In built effects, use the Hearts to add a base colour to the stock Cascade, White run etc effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niclights Posted September 18, 2005 Author Share Posted September 18, 2005 Cheers for reply. I always run in full mode. Number of channels is not a problem - that's why I want more. (Another 12 to be precise!). But with the exception of strobe I have no use for the two effects channels etc. I need exact control. Personality type desks need a dimmer channel to make use of palettes. My suggestion to Pulsar is to add the extra 12 channels on to the end (they don't need to be in order) with an extra dip-switch setting to make use of them for those that need and backwards compatibility for those that don't. I know this is an odd thing for a forum. I really don't need a solution. Think of this more as a survey or poll. Pulsar suggested I ask here to see if others agree. The survey being: Should LED products have separate Dimmer channels as well as RGB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryson Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 I know this is an odd thing for a forum. I really don't need a solution. Think of this more as a survey or poll. Pulsar suggested I ask here to see if others agree. The survey being: Should LED products have separate Dimmer channels as well as RGB? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Poll Added: Your wish is granted! If anyone makes any gags about fairies, it will go very hard on them. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niclights Posted September 18, 2005 Author Share Posted September 18, 2005 :P Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueShift Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 I agree completely, pallet support requires a dimmer channel and LED fixtures should come with this - otherwise you are forever re-doing your RGB mix to get the desired color. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmath Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 "Avo are looking into a 'virtual dimmer' option on the Pearl, but I can't help but think this will be too much extra processing." it couldn't make the pearl much slower could it! haha! Could you not make a fader with chroma RGB levels as 0,0,0 and have it as a 'parameter fade' (maybe a type 2, been a while) and it'll behave like a submaster for your chroma (RGB) intensity I have never tried this on a pearl but it works on other desks, Can't say I'd use the dimmer function tho, when you start getting into lots of chroma stuff it'd be become a waste of good DMX channels! regards Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niclights Posted September 18, 2005 Author Share Posted September 18, 2005 @timmath: RGB masters only control all output and there is already a separate overall master for this (at least on version 3 soft). This does not help with programming and using palettes. I am talking specifically about individual outputs. @Blueshift: Nail... Hit... Head... absolutely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peternewman Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 A bump for a slightly off-topic question. Though this is not a problem for desks that have a 'virtual dimmer' function such as the 'hogI've been playing around with HogPC but I can't seem to find a way to get it to do a virtual dimmer, although saying that none of the documentation listed the dimmer curves either. Basically I'm just curious what you need to do in the fixture file to give it a virtual dimmer. PN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 IIRC, the Hog3 does virtual dimming whereas the Hog2 doesnt. Some other desks (GrandMA, Frog2, D4, etc) also have virtual dimming support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boac Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Definite yes vote from me. Have come against this a few times, with ChromaZones and other LED fixtures. While there are a few workarounds like the ones already suggested you still can't get fully individual control. It may take up more channels but you don't have to use them and surely the more control you can get the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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