GSA Training BA (hons)

[Bryson]

Just leafing (as you do) through the Winter 2002 copy of ABTT update, and noticed that a GSA Training is offering a BA (Hons) in Stage Management and Technical Theatre - which can be completed in one year! (P34, top left) It's validated by the University of Surrey and appears to be a correspondance course of some kind.

 

Now, my Degree is in Theatre Design, not technology, but I really can't see how you could cram a course worthy of a Degree-level qualification into a single year. Is there something about this course that I'm missing? It would seem to devalue the whole concept of a Degree if they can be obtained in increasingly short time periods. I remember someone recently offering a 2-year course, and that seemed a little suspect to me.

 

I've e-mailed the chap for info, and will report back, but I wondered what everyone else's views were...?

[Stu]

I remember someone recently offering a 2-year course, and that seemed a little suspect to me.

Mountview is the one that offers the two year couse, mind you you've got to work your b*****ks off during those two years....

 

I suppose the only benefit of a one year course is you haven't got much money the debt wouldn't be all that big. (The paper today said the average debt could go up to £26,000 for a three year course, with top-up fees. And they want people to goto university to become our future?! :blink: )

 

Stu

[Paul J Need]

It would seem to devalue the whole concept of a Degree if they can be obtained in increasingly short time periods.  I remember someone recently offering a 2-year course, and that seemed a little suspect to me.

I am sure many will remember the days - and not so long ago when most of the SM courses run my LAMDA, RADA, CENTRAL etc used to be a 5 or term course. Not 2 years as if it at the moment. The changes came along after huge sweeping changes to the grant system ( yes several before the latest batch) and students were having difficulty obtaining grants for a SM course....... "Whats Stage Management" came back the reply from the local Education department " we're not giving grants for people to do THAT!" So, colleges had to look at the courses..... "Lets turn them into Degree courses that'll do the trick"

 

From what I have seen of graduate SM's since these changes...... I cannot put my hand on my heart and say standards have improved. Probably the other way if I''m honest.

 

For example: during my old heady student days as an electrics student at RADA - there would be 5 terms of 6 students on the Sm course. and the course would run something like this

 

 

Term -1- Build set, learn stagecraft, crew shows, fly, extras, scene changes etc.

Term -2- Lighting rigging, focusing, board op, sound, Prop Maker, wardrobe assistant, ASM

Term -3- More of the same with some doing DSM

Term -4- Moving up the ladder here and SM.ing shows

Term -5- More SM.ing, CSM.ing and secondments. then out in to the real world....... 90% of the people I knew were in jobs in the theatre inside 2 months.

 

No mass exit from drama school of 26+ students from each and EVERY college throughout the UK all trying to fill 30 jobs!

 

Personally I think having a Degree in Stage Management devalues Degrees ( FULL STOP)

 

Oh and one more thing before I finish my rant!!!!!! During the 5 term course... a college like RADA would stage 10-14 shows per term. YES PER TERM!! So the average SM student would work 15 shows from the day they start to when they leave. They will be lucky if the college does 3-4 shows a term these days and at the same time running up enormous debts. The number of shows changed due to the acting courses changing over to a new system also... so more students less productions. BANANAS!"!!!!!!

 

As a foot note - the course I did the 4 term Stage Electrics.Lighting design course. I lit 14 shows during my time there..... a student leaving today will be lukcy to have lit 3!

 

GONE! and rant over.

[Bryson]

So, here's the info:

 

"The course consists of 4 modules:

 

IT (Information Technology) This module is a test based module of a range of IT skills. Where a student has insufficient knowledge to complete the tests tutorial support is provided.

 

Option A range of senior production allocations which can be assessed in house or through current employment and in exceptional circumstances through employment history with supporting paperwork.

 

MITA (Management in the Arts) A 2 part module based on a series of masterclasses by visiting professionals. This year there were 7 and during these students were required to complete 2 projects: Investigation of an arts based organisation and Creation of an Arts based organisation

 

The projects can be completed on a distance learning basis but attendance at the masterclasses is compulsory. These are usually 2/3 hours over a morning or afternoon.

 

Field Work Project An in depth study of some aspect of theatre or associated industries. Similar to a dissertation although the form of presentation is flexible and ranges from written to video diary.

 

As you can see, most of the course can be completed on a distance learning basis and this year two managers from a theme park are taking the course. Neither has had a problem with attendance or workload."

 

 

 

So, I'll repeat the question: How can a one year (seemingly part-time!) course end in a valid Degree qualification?

[Guest lightnix]

I got my diploma in Stage Management & Technical Theatre from LAMDA back in 1981, along with practically everybody else who did the course, regardless of how well they had done or how good they were.

 

I can't comment on the quality or content of today's courses, but would suggest that any kind of more formalised training has to be better than that.

 

At the time there was a viscious rumour that RADA had started their SM&TT course so that there would be someone to clean up after the actors - Shurely shome mishtake !

 

Also back then it was impossible to get a grant from almost any LEA. Tory local councils regarded theatre as a 'non-productive industry' and labour ones regarded drama schools as a form of private education, which was against their pricipals.

 

None of them remembered of course that it was our artistes and rock bands who were the only ones in the '70s to maintain any kind of decent international reputation for Britain, at a time when our industries were a joke, our economy was shagged and the country was known as "the sick man of Europe". How times change.

[Steve Macluskie]

During the 5 term course... a college like RADA would stage 10-14 shows per term. YES PER TERM!! So the average SM student would work 15 shows from the day they start to when they leave. They will be lucky if the college does 3-4 shows a term these days

 

Hi Paul

 

Just had to butt in for a second.

 

Thought I'd point out that here at RSAMD up in Glasgow we currently do a degree over 3 years with heavy emphasis on "hands on" experience.

 

3 terms of 11 shows, 9 shows and 12 shows (thats 32 shows in 34 weeks and 3 of these shows are large scale Opera)

 

3 years, 9 terms, 7 of them are actually "doing the job" and 2 as classes, theory and research etc.

 

Not plugging the course above any other but we are one course not just producing 3-4 shows a term.

 

Steve

 

RSAMD Website

[Paul J Need]

Hello Steve,

 

Thanks for the reply. I have heard a lot of good reports about the RSAMD course, and apart from the opera part, sounds like the RADA course 15 years ago. I had the pleasure in working with a few graduates when I was last up there working at Scottish Opera.

 

In short, I think Scottish education, RSAMD included, beats the English system hands down in so many respects. All the english colleges could learn a great deal from the training up there is lovely Glasgow.

[DavidB]

Just adding on from Stu's reply, I actually did the Mountview Two Year degree and it was very rewarding although as he mentioned you do work your ******* off doing it, well worth it thou!!

Id be slightly unsure about a degree qualification given in one year!

[Kate Frost]

:D

 

The 1 year degree 'top up' availiable at the GSA is really designed for post grad students, who have completed a 2 yr diploma preferably at the GSA, or possibly somewhere else like LAMDA.

 

It is possible to do it on a 'correspondance basis', as I understand it, because part of it may take the form of a work placement, and during this time if the theatre you are working for decide they want to keep you on past the placement length, it can be arranged with the school to be assessed for the degree in the working environment since you're learning and using the necessary skills.

 

Hope this answers your question. try a more detailed look at:

 

http://gsa.drama.ac.uk

[Stu]

Of course there is something to be said to learning on the job as well... not only are you not losing money and getting in way over your head in terms of debt, your learning more than I think you ever could on a degree course.

 

There's something about working with the real people out in the industry, at least you know exactly what to expect when your at work.

 

Still, I suppose it's very much up to personal taste, but I found school to be very much in favour of ramming Uni down your throat, when there can be much better options out there for some people!

 

Stu

[shadaca]

the ALRA course is hands on, and its only a year, not a degree but a diploma. 4 terms, 3 3rd year shows a term, 2 postgrad shows and showcases etc.

We learnt by doing, i.e. if we didnt 'do' the shows wouldn't happen! :D

[Dave]

Going back to Stu's post:

 

Still, I suppose it's very much up to personal taste, but I found school to be very much in favour of ramming Uni down your throat, when there can be much better options out there for some people!

 

I was in a similar situation 15 years ago. I went to an independent school, and university entry was seen as the most desirable product from the education machine. It was worse for me, as I was one of about six high achievers, and there was huge pressure put on us to try for Oxbridge. We'd all carefully examined uni options and most of us concluded that the "snob value" of Oxford or Cambridge did not outweigh better courses elsewhere. We had great fun resisting pressure from numerous members of staff!

 

Seriously, one thing to bear in mind is that government policy for many years has been to significantly increase the number of people in further education. This does mean that graduates are now ten-a-penny, and employers will be naturally minded to favour someone with the best qualifications, all other things being equal. (Nick also pointed out the H&S implications of needing qualified staff in another thread). It will also increasingly be the case (as it is now in America) that much weight will be given to the reputation of the university you attended.

 

Historically, in many crafts and trades, school leavers were employed and given both on the job (practical) training and sent off to college on day release for the theory. This seems to be on the decline now, partly because few employers can afford to train staff.

 

Although there are problems associated with further education (mostly debt), I think the problems for those young people who don't get degrees will be greater.

[Jen]

So, I'll repeat the question: How can a one year (seemingly part-time!) course end in a valid Degree qualification?

 

I agree Bryson, it does sound quite suspect. Its also quite worrying to think that there will be 'qualified' stage managers out there creating an impression in the industry of the quality of stage management graduates. Hopefully the reputation of a course will be as important as as the qualification, as Dave predicted in an earlier post. Incidentally, do you know if this one-year course is accredited by the NCDT?

 

A comment for Paul J Need: I would be interested to see your research into this issue, and a reference for the facts and figures you gave. They don't seem to fit with my own experience of a degree course, nor of my colleagues.

 

Jen

 

These sites may be of interest:

www.rwcmd.ac.uk

www.ncdt.co.uk

[Paul J Need]

Hello Jen,

 

Would love to respond to your message, however can you be a little more specific about what you would like me to respond to? I made several points.............

 

Looking forward to you getting back to me.

 

Paul

[Jen]

Hi Paul,

 

I realise that by your own admission you were having a rant, which I know we all do, but I wondered about some of the figures you gave... such as:

 

No mass exit from drama school of 26+ students from each and EVERY college throughout the UK all trying to fill 30 jobs!

 

....

 

They will be lucky if the college does 3-4 shows a term these days and at the same time running up enormous debts.

 

My own college course did not have so many students per year... about 18 I think. And I believe that since I graduated they've made several improvements, including limiting their intake. So its surely not every college?

 

Also, I wondered which 30 jobs you were refering to... are there only 30 jobs available each year?

 

As for the number of productions in a college each term, firstly I'm not sure that quantity is quality. Secondly, I wondered if you'd checked with each college to discover they only produce a maximum 3-4 shows per term?

My experience of college was of 6-8 in-house productions, 2-3 national tours, 1 international tour and co-productions with the local theatre. In addition to the college productions, students were able to work on professinal productions of local and national theatres. The college also runs a venue at the Edinburgh Fringe each year, hosting a mixture of college and professional productions.

 

I'm not defending the college outright, as I'm sure it wouldn't be the right path for everyone. However, it was the right path for me and I know many others who would agree. I did run up debts at college but it was the price I had to pay for a very good course.

 

So, I think the original thread was questioning the validity of a short degree course, but you appear to have a low opinion of stage management courses in general. Obviously I am eager to see that people have a good impression of those courses, and graduates, who deserve it. For this reason I wondered what had influenced you in your opinions on this subject, particularly this alarming comment:

 

Personally I think having a Degree in Stage Management devalues Degrees ( FULL STOP)

 

The performance of any one graduate will initially only give a limited number of people their opinion, but what those people choose to do with their opinion give the course its reputation.

 

From what you've written so far I can only guess that you've had a few bad experiences with SM graduates from somewhere. If this is the case then it is the course they came from that you should be refering to in this thread.

If however, you've worked with people from each and every SM course available and each of them have made a poor impression, then of course it fine to comment on all SM courses in a negative light.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Jen