Comms issues - Techpro and Altair

[Ynot]

Now then.

Not for the first time I'm experiencing issues with on-stage comms. We run a combination at the moment of wired Tecpro and wireless Altair beltpacks. Running stage this week has ben a bit tricky as the audibility between those on the TB system hasn't been great. OK, when you have a full band belting out over foldback it can add some difficulties but of late I've noticed that there's been rather muffled reception when others speak.

Yes - I've told crew to have the headset mic closer to their mouths when conversing but that seldom helps.

Any thoughts on how to improve this?

 

[sunray]

9 hours ago, Ynot said:

Now then.

Not for the first time I'm experiencing issues with on-stage comms. We run a combination at the moment of wired Tecpro and wireless Altair beltpacks. Running stage this week has ben a bit tricky as the audibility between those on the TB system hasn't been great. OK, when you have a full band belting out over foldback it can add some difficulties but of late I've noticed that there's been rather muffled reception when others speak.

Yes - I've told crew to have the headset mic closer to their mouths when conversing but that seldom helps.

Any thoughts on how to improve this?

How many of the mics are able to hear the same sound?

One of the issues I've come across has been 2 sets very close to each other and the nulling feature is effectively working across 2 sets, if that is the case un-nulling them just a gnats doodar can make a difference. I'm not saying it's the dogs whatsits or anything.

Also if the ambient is very loud it could be driving the mic pre-amps into saturation/distortion, turning the mic gain down and headset volume up may do something.

Edited June 7 by sunray

[sunray]

I happened to be talking to a colleague/competitor (some person I mentioned in school sound system) about an upcoming event and part of it includes comms, he has been a long time lurker on here but not registered and mentioned my reply without knowing it's mine and didn't follow my description of nulling across 2 stations.

Several scrap envelopes later something similar to this  basic format of the input stage feeding the bus and the output stage feeding the cans including a null control resulted:

I find most people adjust their null for for somewhere between ambient and their voice.

A fair amount of imagination is required but let's assume null is set exclusively for anbient:

If the same ambient sound (A) is present in both mics, that will appear as both entering an output stage as 2A and being nulled out with 2A.

Assuming one of the stations now moves, that ambient sound changes, let's assume to a point where the ambient noise is exactly antiphase; the cans output goverened by the nulling becomes A-A -2A = -4A which is of course way louder that the wanted signal. The ambient signal on th BUS becomes A-A = 0

I realise this is very simplistic and in many respects unlikely/unattainable but I hope gives an insight into how unwanted situations can occur.

Edited June 10 by sunray

[J Pearce]

On 6/7/2024 at 4:04 AM, Ynot said:

Now then.

Not for the first time I'm experiencing issues with on-stage comms. We run a combination at the moment of wired Tecpro and wireless Altair beltpacks. Running stage this week has ben a bit tricky as the audibility between those on the TB system hasn't been great. OK, when you have a full band belting out over foldback it can add some difficulties but of late I've noticed that there's been rather muffled reception when others speak.

Yes - I've told crew to have the headset mic closer to their mouths when conversing but that seldom helps.

Any thoughts on how to improve this?

 

The Altair wireless packs don't go mega loud. I do know that they can struggle for volume when the batteries are tired, so it's worth checking those - they're just NiMh AAA cells inside the packs.

Have you got the right system termination - the Altair basestation can terminate the line, if you've also got termination at your comms PSU you could be overterminated which can cause level issues.

What headsets are you using? Big over-ear headsets always do better on noisy stages than the super lightweights do. In-ears work well for audibility, but are less good for replying as users invariably get the mic-on-cable in the wrong place.

[Ynot]

12 hours ago, J Pearce said:

The Altair wireless packs don't go mega loud. I do know that they can struggle for volume when the batteries are tired, so it's worth checking those - they're just NiMh AAA cells inside the packs.

Have you got the right system termination - the Altair basestation can terminate the line, if you've also got termination at your comms PSU you could be overterminated which can cause level issues.

What headsets are you using? Big over-ear headsets always do better on noisy stages than the super lightweights do. In-ears work well for audibility, but are less good for replying as users invariably get the mic-on-cable in the wrong place.

Hmmm...
The wireless kit isn't very old (12 to 18 months I think) so the batts should be pretty good still and get charged overnight between shows.

No idea on the termination status - will check with our noise boy who set it up at install. 

Headsets - mainly the Canford/Tecpro full-ear jobbies, though a couple prefer the lightewight equivalents that seem to be doing the rounds of late.But the problem seems to be the same across both types.

We do seem to have one or two sets that have VERY quiet transmission and it's on the summer list to check and replace any dodgy mic capsules.

[Ynot]

On 6/7/2024 at 1:11 PM, sunray said:

How many of the mics are able to hear the same sound?

One of the issues I've come across has been 2 sets very close to each other and the nulling feature is effectively working across 2 sets, if that is the case un-nulling them just a gnats doodar can make a difference. I'm not saying it's the dogs whatsits or anything.

Also if the ambient is very loud it could be driving the mic pre-amps into saturation/distortion, turning the mic gain down and headset volume up may do something.

On stage there was (last week) 2 wired sets and 4 wireless. There were times when several sets were in close prox, but that didn't seem to affect the incoming levels.

And hell yeah, when the chorus get into full swing it gets pretty near impossible to communicate effectively but that's the same with wired vs wireless anyway 😞

[sunray]

Sorry for the typoShould have read A-A-2A = -2A

Edited June 11 by sunray

[J Pearce]

9 hours ago, Ynot said:

Hmmm...
The wireless kit isn't very old (12 to 18 months I think) so the batts should be pretty good still and get charged overnight between shows.

No idea on the termination status - will check with our noise boy who set it up at install. 

Headsets - mainly the Canford/Tecpro full-ear jobbies, though a couple prefer the lightewight equivalents that seem to be doing the rounds of late.But the problem seems to be the same across both types.

We do seem to have one or two sets that have VERY quiet transmission and it's on the summer list to check and replace any dodgy mic capsules.

Depending on your usage and charging, that could be getting on a bit for a set of NiMh AAA cells - it won't cost much to change them, I did it as part of annual maintenance when I was at the conservatoire. I used the CPC 1000mAh batteries - nothing fancy.

The back of the Altair base station has a switch for master/slave - that switches the termination on/off. Unterminated comms usually hum and have issues with erratic call lights, over-terminated comms usually lose audio level and sometimes it stops call lights working.