Ethernet (Cat5/6/7) multicores

[cedd]

I'm looking to purchase a few lengths of 4 way cat5/whatever multicores. They'll be for use with REAC/Dante, so no Behringer/Midas need for screened. I'm looking for tails on both ends. I'll be getting a 10, 20, and 30m length (i've already got a home made 50m on a drum). 

I know of a few already. Canford have these and Lynx have these

Are there any other contenders out there? Google doesn't bring back much. Similar price ballpark to the above. 

[Simon Lewis]

The other quite well known one is Sound Tools, which are quite pricey, like the others.

However, I have been using the Thomann CAT Snake series for combined audio and AES3 and they work just fine - albeit in an installed system rather than touring.
They are so cheap, it's not really worthwhile making a home made version. They make different XLR pin variants too.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_sssnake_cat_snake_3mb.htm

[csg]

ive had a few of the canford 4 ways at 50 and 75m for a few years and they have proven reliable. We have them loomed up with power and a 4 way DMX / AES XLR as FOH snakes.

[James Remo]

I’ve been very impressed by the evolution xpc 4 way looms from DCS, very hard wearing in a busy touring environment 
 

https://directcablesystems.com/catalog/product/view/id/6141/s/evolution-xpc-heavy-duty-tactical-multiway-cat5e-per-metre/category/1304/

[J Pearce]

The Canford 4 ways are standard at the hire cos I use. Very hardy if terminated well, sufficiently flexible and well coiling to be useful on a tour.

[Alec]

On 4/4/2024 at 5:01 PM, Simon Lewis said:

The other quite well known one is Sound Tools, which are quite pricey, like the others.

However, I have been using the Thomann CAT Snake series for combined audio and AES3 and they work just fine - albeit in an installed system rather than touring.
They are so cheap, it's not really worthwhile making a home made version. They make different XLR pin variants too.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_sssnake_cat_snake_3mb.htm

Not at all what the OP was asking about!

[Alec]

There's also Van Damme (obviously much lower with trade prices)

[Simon Lewis]

39 minutes ago, Alec said:

Not at all what the OP was asking about!

Got ya... 

That'll teach me to read posts on my phone without my glasses on....

[sleah]

Has no-one else picked up on this......

The OP believes they have no need for screened cable, however some posters I think they are looking at analogue over CAT cable?

In which case, almost all the commercially available boxes with 4 XLR or TRS need screened cable. The descriptions aren't always clear on that.

I've managed to use unscreened for a couple of mics using two of the twisted pairs and the spare pairs as ground (Pin 1). Obviously best for balanced lines.

That said, I read it that the OP is looking for data transmission rather than analogue, in which case no need for screen in many cases and the products he has found will be fine.

I'm not sure of the answer to this - can you run balanced mics down twisted pairs with no screen or Pin 1? How does phantom work in that scenario?

Edited April 9 by sleah

[timsabre]

Some of these boxes don't connect the screen even if you use screened cable. It is often difficult to tell from the description.
I have seen a 3-way version of the box which uses the 4th pair as a common ground for the other 3 pairs.

You can run balanced mics fine with no pin 1, phantom power does not work though and it is somewhat more prone to noise pickup, though the controlled twist of the cat5 cable pairs makes it work fairly well without screen.

[cedd]

Hi all. Thanks for the responses. 

For clarity - i'm using these for data connectivity. I have looked at the xlr over cat boxes before and wondered how it got 12 pins over 8 cores. The ones i've seen have specified screened cable. 

I'm going to contact Canford and Lynx, as neither item I want is a stock item. Just need to suss out lead times for them both. I've had Lynx stuff before and liked it, and have also seen the Canford ones in the flesh too. Both look good. 
I did briefly toy with making my own using tape and individual cables, but when I factor in the cost of ethercons and cable, it's a cheaper option but not by enough versus the neatness of a proper multi. 

[sunray]

3 hours ago, timsabre said:

Some of these boxes don't connect the screen even if you use screened cable. It is often difficult to tell from the description.
I have seen a 3-way version of the box which uses the 4th pair as a common ground for the other 3 pairs.

You can run balanced mics fine with no pin 1, phantom power does not work though and it is somewhat more prone to noise pickup, though the controlled twist of the cat5 cable pairs makes it work fairly well without screen.

Absolutely. For years I've been using cat2 onwards for balanced audio and some very long runs, For OB's it's been common to use 2 pairs for stereo feed, 1 pair for return audio & 1 pair for talkback, sometimes as the actual link but more usually as the run between studio/radio and OB/radio and they may often be hundreds of metres.

Years ago I made up some boxes with 4 XLRs and RJ45 for 'stage snake' type use then added a switch to some to use pair 4 as the common ground for phantom use. Just recently I repurposed a male end which was simply 4 thin FSTs style terminated in a RJ45 plug and male XLRs.

Edited April 9 by sunray

[sunray]

5 minutes ago, cedd said:

Hi all. Thanks for the responses. 

For clarity - I'm using these for data connectivity. I have looked at the xlr over cat boxes before and wondered how it got 12 pins over 8 cores. The ones I've seen have specified screened cable. 

I'm going to contact Canford and Lynx, as neither item I want is a stock item. Just need to suss out lead times for them both. I've had Lynx stuff before and liked it, and have also seen the Canford ones in the flesh too. Both look good. 
I did briefly toy with making my own using tape and individual cables, but when I factor in the cost of ethercons and cable, it's a cheaper option but not by enough versus the neatness of a proper multi. 

it was common to use 4 cat 5's in an overall sheath to simplify structured cabled ethernet but sadly not flexible.

I used to use 7 pair stranded cat 5 a fair bit, we used to get it on 500m drums and behaved itself for portable work, even the overall braided screen version. It's possible I may have some offcuts lurking but doubt anything long. I don't see why larger sizes should not be available.

[sunray]

19 minutes ago, cedd said:

Hi all. Thanks for the responses. 

For clarity - I'm using these for data connectivity. I have looked at the xlr over cat boxes before and wondered how it got 12 pins over 8 cores. The ones I've seen have specified screened cable. 

I'm going to contact Canford and Lynx, as neither item I want is a stock item. Just need to suss out lead times for them both. I've had Lynx stuff before and liked it, and have also seen the Canford ones in the flesh too. Both look good. 
I did briefly toy with making my own using tape and individual cables, but when I factor in the cost of ethercons and cable, it's a cheaper option but not by enough versus the neatness of a proper multi. 

I find with many things like this it's not worth making your own...  But of course that's how I've always done it.

A little while ago I installed 16XLR audio tiepairs between stage and control desk in a school hall. It was just cheaper to buy a ready made snake from CPC than to buy just the 16 way cable.

[sleah]

10 hours ago, timsabre said:

You can run balanced mics fine with no pin 1, phantom power does not work though and it is somewhat more prone to noise pickup, though the controlled twist of the cat5 cable pairs makes it work fairly well without screen.

Thanks for the clarification Tim. Useful to know. I occasionally have to 'ad-hoc' cables for an event. Just 2 weeks ago I ran 4 condensers through CAT6 (unscreened) infrastructure split over 2 runs - roughly 50m or more I'd say. I was able to use spare pairs as pin 1 and they worked perfectly. The only buzz I got turned out to be a dodgy XLR I was using as an extension!

Edited April 9 by sleah