Sennheiser EW-D antennas?

[John_P]

Hi,

I'm looking to improve my wireless performance by adding some antennas.   Currently using 3 EW-D receivers with the standard 1/4 wave in each.   
 

Correct me if I’m wrong but I should stick with passive antennas- either the omni a1031 or directional a2003 or newer adp by sennheiser but any similar paddle covering the frequency range should be fine.  
For simple less than 30m range  with the paddles up high I suspect a pair of the cheaper a1031 omni antennas will be fine?

The next part is distributing the input’s between the receivers - do I need to use the dedicated sennheiser asa or will other makes/models do the job?

 

Although it’s active I came across this pack with everything in a set - what does anyone think or should I avoid it and stick to sennheiser passives?

https://ultralightsound.co.uk/product/4-way-rado-mic-audio-distribution-aud-kit-complete-with-all-the-cables/

Thanks!

[sandall]

Getting your receivers or aerials nearer the action might be a lot cheaper, but no reason to suppose these won't do the job. 

[sunray]

28 minutes ago, sandall said:

Getting your receivers or aerials nearer the action might be a lot cheaper, but no reason to suppose these won't do the job. 

That's always my preferred option, On that note to get the RX closer I've made 2 pair cables between the RX and mixer for audio and 12V power. I also have 6 pair cable ~10mm diameter for 4 Trantec s4.4 RX's mounted in a weatherproof poly box, the other 2 pairs takes ~20-24V which is then regulated down to 12V. Sometimes simply stood on the arena/stage/ground or mounted on speaker stand/pole etc.

 

I know a company who uses a selection of Trantec and Ultra systems in the 4channel and a larger size. They have them racked in identacal manner and seem to use either without apparent consideration.

[J Pearce]

I usually cover a good 30m radius range on passive omni paddles on up to 20m of good coax. This is with spot licensed frequencies in the 606-678MHz band.

I often find that directional paddles can cause as many problems as they solve, so normally keep these for IEM transmitters rather than receivers. However, if your radio mics are used only in one small area (from the perspective of the antenna) a directional antenna can be useful - for example receivers at FOH rather than stage. They can also be useful if you need to avoid another transmitter (often a problem around Brum with Sutton Coldfield piling out 200kW on frequencies within the common 606-678MHz radio mic band), as you can point the null of the antenna at the rf noise issue.

I usually stick to the matching brand of RF distribution, but there's no real reason you have to. If it meets the specs then it should be fine. Some systems offer the advantage of powering receivers via the RF distribution, which can reduce spaghetti somewhat.

[John_P]

Thanks for the replies.       

I think I'll order a pair of Sennheiser omni paddles this week and try them at the weekend with number one receiver.    Then look at my options for adding a distribution box to complete the rack at a later date.

[Simon Lewis]

I don't have the technical rationale for this, but when Sennheiser bought out the EW-D they were saying that the existing antennae distribution systems weren't compatible.
They have, of course, since bought out the EW-D ADP directional paddle and the EW-D ASA splitter, both of which are designed to accommodate EW-D systems.

Just from a practical viewpoint, I would suggest one pair of paddles and a splitter is a better (and cheaper) approach than buying individual pairs of paddles for the three EW-Ds.

That said, Sennheiser sell an inexpensive half wave dipole antennae for the EW-D. I don't have performance figures, but at only ~ £26 each it's a cheaper way of exploring extra performance.

Are you actually experiencing poor RF performance with your EW-Ds? 

Edited June 14, 2022 by Simon Lewis

[John_P]

HI,

I was only looking at buying one pair of paddles and using them with one receiver until I add in the distributor to connect to the others.      

I would be very interested to find out how the ew-d distributor differs from a regular g3/g4 unit as the paddles are the same, so I suspect I could use any brand of antenna and distributor so long as they cover the right frequency range. 

I very very rarely have any wireless issues but I just want to be sure I'm doing eveything practical to get the best performance - it will be diminishing returns and I suspect a pair of 1/2 wave antenna mounted up high with clear line of sight would do but I don't mind investing in something better, just getting the balance right. 

[Simon Lewis]

1 hour ago, John_P said:

I would be very interested to find out how the ew-d distributor differs from a regular g3/g4 unit as the paddles are the same, so I suspect I could use any brand of antenna and distributor so long as they cover the right frequency range. 

I believe it is to do with the improved front end filtering that is used/needed for the EW-D system. It boasts an equidistant tuning grid and the elimination of intermodulation - which is quite an achievement.
Whilst I get that Sennheiser might just say 'you have to use this distribution with the EW-D system because we say so' there does seem to be a proper rationale behind this.
Having invested in the EW-D system, my take would be that it makes more sense to buy the dedicated products for antennae distribution, rather than chancing it with third party products.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Simon Lewis

[John_P]

Thanks Simon.

Someone local to me just offered me so a2003 paddles so I'll try them out - he also has the older asp2 passive splitter, that I might test while I'm looking for a supplier for the ew-d box.   I agree in the longer term it makes sense to use the dedicated system though. 

[Simon Lewis]

Just found my notes from one of the Sennheiser dealers: "Sennheiser say the new ASA is good for EW-D and other EW systems, but the older ASA from G2/3/4 shouldn’t be used with EW-D".
Just looked at the supplier I use and the EW-D ASA isn't in stock at the moment...

[John_P]

Quick update - I bought some a2003 directional paddle yesterday.   The chap selling them also had an older asp2 splitter so we gave it a test and it appears to work perfectly and gave a good signal to two receivers.     I'll do some more extensive tests before I use it on a show but it was worth a try for the price and I'll get the ew-d distributer when they are more readily available.

 

Another question - what's the best practice for positioning the paddes?       I was planning to put them on mic stands and have one at the side of the stage pointing across and one at the back aimed forward so I can cover most mic positions. 

[J Pearce]

We usually try to get ours well above head height, usually on a perch or fly floor area. A tall mic stand will do if that's not possible though.

The conundrum of where to point directional paddles is part of the reason I don't use them... I'd probably go for one of the DS corners pointing to MS the other side, and then maybe US the same side pointing across again.

[timsabre]

I've never found the directional paddles to be all that directional - they definitely have better gain from the front than a dipole antenna and less from the back and sides but as long as they are pointed in the rough direction of the stage they should be fine. Having a bit of separation between the antennas to allow them to pick up different signal paths as people move around seems to be the most important thing.

[J Pearce]

1 hour ago, timsabre said:

I've never found the directional paddles to be all that directional

The specs on the models I've used show that they are vaguely cardioid. On a few occasions I've had issues with dead spots that have been solved by switching to omni antenna. Equally I've solved a few issues by using directional antenna with the null pointed at a noisy source.

[GaryNattrass]

Sennheiser do a superb handbook on wireless systems and it is well worth seeking a copy from them as the cable v gain booster balance equation is quite critical to the system. 

https://en-uk.sennheiser.com/wireless-handbook-sennheiser-sound-academy

Edited June 16, 2022 by GaryNattrass