ELATION Magic 260 not powering up

[partyanimallighting]

Hi guys, I recently pulled an old Elation Magic 260 DMX controller out of storage after probably 10 or 12 years and decided to check it out for functionality. On power up the display does not light up at all and I am just getting a very dim flash on the top row of characters, nothing else. I scrapped it out and checked the usual suspects on the main power input board (two large caps 16V 1000uf and 25V 2200uf, LM7805, TIP41C) and decided to change them out, along with the BIOS battery (2032) and a TIP42 on the main console mainboard............Still that dim flashing row of squares on the display and nothing else. I've checked the ribbon cable for continuity (that's fine) and posted the voltage readings at the terminal on the console mainboard. Can I get some advice as to where I should check next? Maybe the 16V 47uf SMD caps on the main power input board? I'd be grateful for any guidance just to see if I can get the old girl up and running again.

[DrV]

This sounds like a power supply problem. I would start with finding out why the LCD backlight is not working as this is relatively simple. It looks as though Q1 on the back panel board regulates that so check whether it is receiving a steady supply. Are you using the original wall wart and is it capable of supplying sufficient current? Is there any pulsing going on at the input and output of the 7805?

P.S. What do you mean by "scrapped it out"?!

Edited June 1, 2022 by DrV

[partyanimallighting]

Hi DrV, I'm using a a 12V wall wart and output from that is fine (I tried another just in case with the same result, barely visible top row of character blocks on the display slowly flashing). And no issues at the 7805, 10V in and 5V out without fluctuations when I metered it last night but I forgot to put the meter on the Q1 TIP41 to get a reading. Sorry about that. I have an abundance of new parts lying around so I swapped out the LM7805, TIP41C, 25V 2200uf and 16V 1000uf so far, along with the TIP42 on the main control board. The voltage readings on the ribbon terminal at the main control board to are steady to and I listed these readings in the first pic.

"Scrapped out" as in taken apart to pieces, even the knobs are in for a thorough cleaning/degreasing to remove any grime and buildup. It's been so long that I've seen this controller I'm not even sure why I packed it up and put it away. Maybe it had this specific issue and it was simply put into storage, I just can't remember from so many years ago.

[indyld]

I'd next pick a likely looking controller type IC, check the datasheet for what it needs, and prod the nearest decoupling caps to see if they are getting all the right power pins(3v3 or whatever). Sometimes when you start at the start of the power chain and the main rails are OK you can be none the wiser, but starting at the other END can be productive to find your way back to the mid point where the problem is.

It's hard to see exactly what's what in the images, but when working on laptop and console motherboards I use any coils (the start) and the IC ceramic SMD capacitors (the end) as orientation points.

Also be aware that stuff at this age and older can suffer from really hard to find failure points such as a corroded via.

Edited June 1, 2022 by indyld

[timsabre]

The top line flash on the display shows that it's getting power but not being initialized by the microcontroller. So I would guess that isn't running. It looks like there's a crystal mounted underneath the 40 pin dil chip with a label on which I would guess is the micro. Try replacing that, I've known quite a few "non running" faults be due to an aged crystal. 

[alistermorton]

Could it be - long shot this - that the program is held, not in mask ROM, but in eprom, and its started to decay, so a bit here and there are wrong?

 

Nah, didn't think so. 

[partyanimallighting]

I just plugged in to take some readings on the TIP41 on the power input board (Pin 1 ~ 1.688V / Pin 3 ~ 2.279V) and on the TIP42 on the control mainboard (Pin 1 ~ 0.641V / Pin 3 ~ -0.03V). I would think that the voltage on the power input board is too low so I'm inclined to believe that the problem is on this particular board (maybe the SMD caps?). Anyone wants to offer some advice here?

[timsabre]

Do what Rob said and check for supply voltage at the main ic's, then trace back. If it's a dc input supply then caps are not likely to have much influence. 

[DrV]

What is that soic chip above R10, R11 on the power board? Some clearer pics would help. And a pic of the underside of that PCB too. 

Edited June 2, 2022 by DrV

[indyld]

I wouldn't get too fixated on ceramic caps other than their useful part in finding key supply rails (and ground) on a board. Failure is usually dead short and mostly those under the greatest stress (big ones), not usually age related. 

Having said that, it can useful to check the diode test voltage drop (board not powered) on the chip side of them to identify potential issues within an IC. 

If the main regulators / supplies seem good, check that the complex bit (chips) are getting the power they need. If not, find out why. 

Edited June 2, 2022 by indyld

[partyanimallighting]

Hi guys, thanks for all the help so far. I did some component labeling and took the pic of the rear of the power board as DrV requested. I hope the pic is clear enough.

 

[indyld]

Seeing this board more clearly, I don't think it is of primary interest. 5v is going to the main board and that's probably all that's needed at this point (assuming your measured voltages were taken with the boards connected). The ICs on this small board relate to the data (although quad inverters are sometimes used to do basic PWM, but is that a MIDI connector next to it?) and the TIP looks to be connected to VR1 which I assume is audio input level or something. The other TIP on the mainboard just looks like it's dealing with the 5v to the USB light, again not really of interest unless it was directly connected directly to the main 5v rail and causing problems. 

Some similar pics of the other board would be useful. I assume the QFP socket next to the microcontroller is actually populated? It wasn't clear in the image and I assume it's the display driver. Or perhaps a multiplexer. There's lots of ICs that I can guess the functionality by their position and package, but even without knowing those things you can still check for power at small brown MCC caps next to them. Many might just be happy with their 5v, but some elements here may require another rail (3.3, 1.8 or something) and if so this will be created by a buck convertor, a shunt or something else.

Edited June 3, 2022 by indyld

[DrV]

Agree with indyld, this board is probably ok. The tip41 is just a dimmer for the LCD backlight (as far as I can see). The pot is, I think, the brightness control. Is that component marked C12 actually a mic? If so then the lm324 is a preamp for it and the caps associated with it won't be relevant to your problem. You've shown pin 3 of the connector as 0.35V but it appears to be connected to pins 2 and 4. I assume that's mistake.

One thing that no-one has suggested so far is to check that there isn't a button stuck on. This could potentially cause the microcontroller to loop, trying to start up.

Can't add anything more until we can see the main board in more detail.

[indyld]

Aha, yes. I couldn't work out why such a big transistor was in among what I wondered was an audio in. Backlight control makes more sense.

As does the what I'd also noticed what I thought was an internal mic. I got mixed up with quad/hex things in my head, the LM is obviously an op amp not an inverter. This also means the associated things around it are more fitting. 

Regarding stuck buttons, I was going to ask if other bits of the interface (LEDs) work properly, latching with buttons like they should etc. This might help ascertain which, if any, bits of the microcontroller and outlying ICs are functioning.

Edited June 3, 2022 by indyld

[partyanimallighting]

Right, I'll try to answer all the followup posts starting with indyld. Based on what you've posted, it seems that I wasted most of my time thinking that this input board was the cause of the problem 😆 when I should be focusing on the main controller board. There is MIDI IN and THROUGH on the board and there is an RCA AUDIO IN on this board also. There is a USB light connector on the main controller board and you stated that the TIP42 probably controls that. There is an unmarked chip in the QFP socket and I also pulled that, cleaned it up and reinstalled during my initial poking around looking for problems. If you're assuming this is the display driver maybe this is the cause of the problem? Maybe it's faulty?

DrV, the pot is the brightness control for the display. A stuck button may cause a problem and I've encountered this scenario in the past with other models of controllers but there were never startup issues. Those units would start up fine but the button function would create a loop scenario until it was unstuck. I can't even check for a stuck button unless I get the unit started up or I attack each button individually and test for continuity.....all 41 of them 🤣

indyld, there is an internal mic for audio pickup for sound activation of the light shows. Regarding the LED's, I can't even remember how this controller looks when it boots up, if LED's are on, off, flash or run a chase, it's been so long. As it is right now, on startup, the top row of characters on the display light up briefly and then flash. Nothing else. So I can't check buttons or LED's for functionality.

I'll try to take some cleaner pix of the main controller board and post them ASAP. Thanks all!