Recommendations for tight LED profiles

[Stuart91]

I've been asked to look at replacing some elderly incandescent profiles with LED in a small theatre. 

The existing lanterns are Strand Harmony, with a 12 degree lens. This seems to be more or less perfect for the available throw.

So I'm looking for a modern LED equivalent. There isn't the budget for Source 4, so I think we're looking at mid-market brands. The 12 degree angle seems to whittle down the field of contenders somewhat. The other thing is that they will likely be running them as generic channels from an existing desk, for various reasons buying a modern console with fixture / personality control isn't on the agenda at the moment. This means that some modern units with six or eight LED colours would be less helpful, simple RGBW or RGBA is preferable although I appreciate it's maybe not going to be possible. 

Does anyone have experience (good or bad) that they can share of any suitable models?

[Bryson]

There isn't much of a mid-market in the full RBGA profile market, tbh.  The Chauvet Pros of this world are not significantly cheaper than the ETCs.  

 

How about the Prolights Eclipse FS:  https://www.prolightsamerica.com/product/NAECLIPSEFS? You can get it with a 14 degree lens.  I can't vouch for it's colour reproduction but I hear good things from my contacts.

 

 

BR user @jonny_makinlightin apparently has some, maybe he can share his experience so far?

[Stuart91]

14 minutes ago, Bryson said:

There isn't much of a mid-market in the full RBGA profile market, tbh.  The Chauvet Pros of this world are not significantly cheaper than the ETCs.

Yep - that's what I'm finding. Wondering if there's any hidden gems out there. 

The folks in the venue had a touring show come through, pre-lockdown, with some Chauvet profiles that they found quite impressive, but the beam angle was too wide and about 80% of the aperture was shuttered down. 

[delicolor]

I recently picked up an LEDJ FS100 followspot for circa £350, also seeking an affordable narrow profile.

pros- it is tight and bright for 100W led, it has an iris, regular zoom profile lenses and sharpens/softens quite nicely. You can DMX control intensity and colour on two channels. It has native cold white with warm white as the first colour on the wheel.

cons- no framing shutters or gobo runners. The dichroic colour wheel is not in the order I’d want and a couple of colours are insipid. The bottom end of the dimming curve is fierce, it leaps to noticably on with DMX level 001! 

It is an affordable low end followspot/profile and suits our need to tightly light an organ console but would have liked stripping shutters or even just a top blade. Worth a look for the price.

[alistermorton]

The elation WW profiles go down to 19 degrees, although, I do wonder if a source 4 lens tube fits? A few manufacturers (e.g. Infinity) say they "accept industry standard lens tubes" which actually means ETC S4 tubes. Those go down to 5 degrees ...

[dje]

3 hours ago, alistermorton said:

The elation WW profiles go down to 19 degrees, although, I do wonder if a source 4 lens tube fits? A few manufacturers (e.g. Infinity) say they "accept industry standard lens tubes" which actually means ETC S4 tubes. Those go down to 5 degrees ...

I can't speak for others but the Chauvet Ovation ones take ETC lens tubes, I know that. 

That said, remember for 5 and 10 degree S4 lenses, you need to use the yoke adaptor (because the CoG moves forward with the long lens and puts rather a lot of cantilever load on the G clamp and makes it also quite hard to focus) and what I don't know is whether the ETC yoke adaptor will fit on an Ovation

[Bryson]

Update to this:  I just did a big demo shootout of LED conventionals recently.  The Prolights Eclipse was surprisingly good.  I would say 98% as good as the Colorsource, at much less money.  I was impressed.

[alistermorton]

Worth knowing - thanks.

[IRW]

On 12/2/2021 at 1:56 PM, dje said:

That said, remember for 5 and 10 degree S4 lenses, you need to use the yoke adaptor (because the CoG moves forward with the long lens and puts rather a lot of cantilever load on the G clamp and makes it also quite hard to focus) and what I don't know is whether the ETC yoke adaptor will fit on an Ovation

Tbf, I’ve never had a problem with 10 degree lenses (or indeed the odd 5 degree I’ve used) on a standard yolk- the bigger lenses are polymer rather than glass, so, relatively speaking, are lighter than their glass cousins- a 10’ is only 500g heavier than a  19’, and a 5’ is 100g lighter than a 14’. Both 5 & 10 are lighter than a 15-30 zoom tube, which is where I commonly see balance yolks. Now if you’re going to start putting scrollers on the front, that’s a different story, but given that we’re talking about the (generally) heavier LED back ends, I don’t think the balance would really be a problem.

[Stuart91]

Thanks, Bryson - that's very useful intel. 

We'll probably demo a couple at some point, just to confirm how they behave in the space before putting down money. 

Ian makes a good point about balance - I've that sort of issue before with longer lenses. Thankfully with the LED source scrollers won't be required, but I'll pay close attention to the yoke arrangement. 

[dje]

17 hours ago, IRW said:

a 10’ is only 500g heavier than a  19’, and a 5’ is 100g lighter than a 14’. Both 5 & 10 are lighter than a 15-30 zoom tube, which is where I commonly see balance yolks. 

I think perhaps I was wrong in saying they're necessary but my memory of using 5s and 10s was that they were easier to focus with the balancing yoke installed. I think even if the weights are the same, at the end of the day the big piece of glass is still both (a) bigger and (b) on a greater cantilever! The nature of focusing a very narrow lens lantern is that you're often using it for long throw applications and of course the further you go from the stage, less movement at the lantern means more movement on the stage, so the ability to utilise finer movements is only ever a good thing. 

But I don't doubt that you're correct and they're not technically necessary.

[sunray]

Having had limited experience with focussing unbalanced fittings my solution has been to hang a counterbalance on the back. That started when asked to operate follow spot for Christmas panto run where my (part time) job was sound and the Strand 2KW with colour magazine was far from balanced, We'd had blocks of lead in the shed about 5x4x1cm with a hole at each end, I threaded wire through the holes until there was enough weight for balance to make a tower about 25cm tall and tied it in place. It made the whole follow spot operation so much smoother, after the first show the guy on the other spot tried the lamp and wanted the same on the other lamp. We wrapped them in something so they didn't rub or make a noise. I was only there for a year or so but some 30 years later the weights were still there when I went to a show.

I contracted to a guy refurbing a schools lighting installation and hanging S4's (or something similar) with narrow lenses on a suspended bar was totally impossible without adding rear weight.

It's not the actual weight or the bulk that matters it's only the balance and I'll admit I'm surprised by the difference with non glass lenses. (But so so far from being an expert in these matters).

[dje]

56 minutes ago, sunray said:

It's not the actual weight or the bulk that matters it's only the balance and I'll admit I'm surprised by the difference with non glass lenses. (But so so far from being an expert in these matters).

Indeed - the balancing yoke just moves the pivot point forward so that more of the lantern weight is behind the pivot. A slightly more elegant solution but also I suspect for any bar hanging over the audience, adding dead weight to the lantern in a manner not expressly designed in, is probably frowned upon and/or not insurable.

Edited January 17, 2022 by dje