X32 patch leads

[revbobuk]

Folks - I need to move an X32 a little further away from the installed Ethercon wallplate, and that means I need a patch cable which meets the spec - Cat5e, shielded, with continuity from shell to shell. Any good sources? Preferably at a reasonable price? Does the CPC 5m cable from Van Damme (AV23497) have continuity shell-shell? Edited September 4, 2020 by revbobuk

[kgallen]

Thomann

 

Something like this (just bought one myself) for the ‘cost conscious’ consumer!

 

https://m.thomann.de/gb/pro_snake_cat6e_cable_15m.htm

 

Kevin

Edited September 5, 2020 by kgallen

[paulears]

I never knew it was a requirement. For jobs where damage to the cable was likely, I often ran in two ordinary cables without the XLR termination - i.e. just a Cat5e cable - 50m, from Cpc. I'd run in two of them, and just use one, with the other as spare. It never occurred to me this was wrong!

[kgallen]

https://m.thomann.de...e_cable_15m.htm

 

I just buzzed out my one of the above and it does indeed have shell-to-shell continuity.

 

Conversely, the "pro" one I have that came with my X32 Compact bundle (https://www.thomann....5_profi_30m.htm) and I use all of the time doesn't have shell-to-shell continuity.

Edited September 6, 2020 by kgallen

[revbobuk]

Who knows for sure. There are plenty of reports of connections dropping out, and plenty of people who have been working perfectly happily without it. I just try to avoid adding in risk points if I can avoid it. I suspect it is a bit like the whole 'proper' DMX cable issue - it isn't a problem until it's a problem, and then it fails when you can't stop to fix it.

[alistermorton]

We've used our Soundcraft digital stage boxes through the structured cabling successfully, just using good quality Cat5e cables, but not with ethercons (standard "network" style patch bay) so the connectors were moulded plastic, hence no shells to connect. No problems. But then this isn't the same system so there could be different requirements (and it's not really my area of expertise).

[kgallen]

Bob has tweaked my interest with the grounded shell. I'm going to check my two Thomman EtherCon cables later to see if the RJ45 itself has the Cat6 metal fingers down the side for the drain connection and recheck the shell continuity.

 

I found this (slightly old) Drew Brashler (dBB) video on fitting the Neutrik EtherCon after-market shells to an off-the-shelf Cat6 cable. The comments have the update/debate on the grounded shell. Seems Bob is indeed correct (would we ever doubt him!). Although I'm wondering if, as long as the RJ45 is a Cat6 type with the shielding fingers, is there actually any EMIRFI benefit to having the shell itself connected, since with the (Cat6) RJ45 inserted into the socket on the desk, is there any part of the cable that is not actually shielded?

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by kgallen

[Yorkie]

Having unpacked a new X32 Rack a couple of weeks back it comes with a sticker over the AES50 ports imploring you to use an STP cable

[kgallen]

I think we're all good with STP[*] cable (i.e. Cat6 or above), it's the grounding of the EtherCon shells that I think we need to resolve per Bob's OP. If we can resolve that either way then at least Bob knows what sort of cable he's looking for - although suppliers actually specifying if that is the case for the product is another question...

 

[*] I understand this would imply cables labelled: STP, ScTP, SFTP, S-FTP, SSTP, S/UTP, SF/UTP based on: https://www.universa...tional%20braid.

 

And that unacceptable cables would likely be: UTP, U/UTP, FTP, F/UTP

Edited September 7, 2020 by kgallen

[kgallen]

Bob has tweaked my interest with the grounded shell. I'm going to check my two Thomann EtherCon cables later to see if the RJ45 itself has the Cat6 metal fingers down the side for the drain connection and recheck the shell continuity.

 

I looked at both of my cables again. Neither are making a deliberate electrical connection to the 'XLR' shell (there is no specific connection point). Both use a shielded RJ45 within the shell, and both cables have continuity through the shielding of the RJ45. That my newer one showed shell continuity is just luck that the RJ45 shield makes a better connection to the Yongshen shell than my older "pro" cable does in its Neutrik shell.

 

So in my mind this is resolved for the Behringer requirement - shielded cable, shielded RJ45 plugs. Both of the Thomann cables linked above satisfy this requirement. If the actual EtherCon shell has shield continuity is luck on the snuggness of the RJ45 in the shell or a newer cable happening to have less oxidation on those surfaces. That the Neutrik connector has no connection point to the shell for any braid/shield says to me that what I see on these two cables is as good as it gets.

 

 

Bob is that any help?

 

Kevin

 

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by kgallen

[revbobuk]

Bob has tweaked my interest with the grounded shell. I'm going to check my two Thomann EtherCon cables later to see if the RJ45 itself has the Cat6 metal fingers down the side for the drain connection and recheck the shell continuity.

 

I looked at both of my cables again. Neither are making a deliberate electrical connection to the 'XLR' shell (there is no specific connection point). Both use a shielded RJ45 within the shell, and both cables have continuity through the shielding of the RJ45. That my newer one showed shell continuity is just luck that the RJ45 shield makes a better connection to the Yongshen shell than my older "pro" cable does in its Neutrik shell.

 

So in my mind this is resolved for the Behringer requirement - shielded cable, shielded RJ45 plugs. Both of the Thomann cables linked above satisfy this requirement. If the actual EtherCon shell has shield continuity is luck on the snuggness of the RJ45 in the shell or a newer cable happening to have less oxidation on those surfaces. That the Neutrik connector has no connection point to the shell for any braid/shield says to me that what I see on these two cables is as good as it gets.

 

 

Bob is that any help?

 

Kevin

 

Kevin - I suspect that what you say is the reality. But this idea that there must be continuity between the ethercon shells seems widely to be accepted as 'official' for the X32 series. I can't find any Behringer documentation that says more than 'shielded Cat-5e, ethercon terminated'

 

Just for information, the cables I have just ordered from Amazon (Designacable) use Van Damme Tourcat and Neutrik Ethercon shells, and they are very reasonably priced. There is, as you observe, no designed in connection between the shell and the shield, but it measures continuity well under an ohm end-end

[kgallen]

Just for information, the cables I have just ordered from Amazon (Designacable) use Van Damme Tourcat and Neutrik Ethercon shells, and they are very reasonably priced.

 

Hi Bob, I've used them quite a bit for cables and parts (although via their eBay "shop"), so I hope when you get your order they are top-notch. Let us know!

 

Cheers, Kevin

 

ETA: For completeness in earlier posts I should have said "Yongsheng" for the brand of the EtherCon on the 15m cable. Yongsheng being the Chinese branch of Neutrik. Google for the backstory!

Edited September 9, 2020 by kgallen

[Shez]

I think we're all good with STP[*] cable (i.e. Cat6 or above)

Perhaps not... The spec is very specifically shielded CAT5. CAT6 has a different structure - better for Ethernet but not for AES50. It'll generally work, albeit with a shorter maximum length than CAT5.

[revbobuk]

Just for information, the cables I have just ordered from Amazon (Designacable) use Van Damme Tourcat and Neutrik Ethercon shells, and they are very reasonably priced.

 

Hi Bob, I've used them quite a bit for cables and parts (although via their eBay "shop"), so I hope when you get your order they are top-notch. Let us know!

 

Cheers, Kevin

 

ETA: For completeness in earlier posts I should have said "Yongsheng" for the brand of the EtherCon on the 15m cable. Yongsheng being the Chinese branch of Neutrik. Google for the backstory!

 

Yup, received, installed and tested. The <1 ohm is measured from a real cable in my hand, so I will be using them again.

[paulears]

I'm confused. Wasn't one of the great things about connecting via Cat 'anything' cable that there was no ground connection brought from stage to FOH - which cured lots of the old hums and noises? If we now connect the two via the cable, won't that have a potentially serious problem with fault current when something goes wrong? The audio 'rule' of never connecting the shell and keeping pin 1 aways from the chassis has been turned on it's head?