Thirdtap Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Um not to judge your job too much Andy but the main thing that people find demoralizing isn't black T shirts it's low pay an long hours.If those changed I sure techs would quite happily walking around grinning in white Tshirts!!! Although pale skinned people with mad grins in slowly going grey Tshirts... that sounds like a performance in its self. I can kinda see that they might think that a blackout might cause problems, who hasn't bumped or tripped on or off stage at some point?The thing to find out is if this course of action has been brought around via risk assessments and reviewing the previous accidents and near misses or is it somebodies great idea? There is an argument that yes you could adhere to this policy but it will be pointless because it will not be training students for the future. Imagine a student on stage on their first pro job during plotting or a dress rehearsal and the stage goes black, all that can be heard is 'What's this? We didn't do this at uni!!!'Seriously a student can't be trained properly if they don't become comfortable with the stage and moving / setting during blackout does get a little used to. One last thing whilst the lights are up any scene changes are done seen, which in some jobs comes with an appearance payment for the crew.... yes I know it is not going to happen.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy jackson Posted June 9, 2005 Author Share Posted June 9, 2005 Its just a classic case of non-theatre types not understanding or appreciating our craft. All our students and crew are warned about the dangers and it is all risk assessed, I think im just going to have a quiet word with someone and explaing in simple terms that they are clinicaly mad, or even spend a day longer at the start of each acadenic year making students practive in a low level and gradualy fading it out. Thinking on, they havent once passed comment on the fact that I frequently work on my own, never wear steelies and all the hard hats have an inch of dust on them! when students are about I make them wear them but I must admit I dont generally. swings and roundabouts! Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henny Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 you coud do what we did for one show , a white-out, we hung a 5kw lamp in just a holder (like a household pendent) DSC about 1.5m bellow the pross for each change we faded this to full , so aduance couldent see anythig but this lamp, changed the set ect then faded it back out. henny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Some Bloke Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 I would suggest going to the ABTT, they are used to insane HaS regs. I remember at one point hearing that the HSE had decided that, when using a tallescope, it could not be moved while people are on the platform. Meaning that they had to come down in between each lantern etc.. The ABTT responded and put out their own guidelines which are far more sensible. Namely; outriggers whereever possible, always two people at the bottom who understand theatre geography (i.e. SL etc). They may come up with sensible - industry relevent - guidelines. Genus<{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm rather afraid, Genus, that the last ABTT 'Working At Height' course I went on was saying there should be 4 people at the bottom of a tallescope to make it safe for moving with someone at the top. I know that two is normal, but that's what their recomendation was last year (it may have changed since, I don't know.) However, in response to the OP: no, it's not just you - it really is bonkers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimWebber Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Sarcastic// Who’s up 4 foot railings along the front of the stage as people could fall off and even worse fall into the pit!!! //Sarcastic <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I am reliably informed, that during an HSE visit to a London stage, an inspector did recommend a handrail at the front of the stage.... What happened to Common Sense? Has any-one looked at the dangers of being crushed by the ever increasing mound of paper-work, RAs etc?.... ...Perhaps there should be a risk-assessment... :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Pearce Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Repetitive strain injury from constantly filling out identical forms? Demoralisation from watching a huge industry crawl to a halt to fill out some paperwork? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimWebber Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Repetitive strain injury from constantly filling out identical forms? Demoralisation from watching a huge industry crawl to a halt to fill out some paperwork?<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Apparently, from my RA course, it's not an RSI any more. It's a "Work Related Upper Limb Disorder" (WRULD) A RSI can be caused by many things not necessarily work related. A WRULD is, by definition Work Related. If you are going to get signed off, you may struggle to get compensation for a RSI. A WRULD however lays the blame a lot more at your employers doorstep... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Pearce Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Shows the entire purpose behind health and safety. Not to keep us safe as one with a naive mind might think; but to cover our arses in a court case or to enable someone to sue us to buggery when they aren't capable of executing some common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Oh well, I never vdid like UV scenes - all those people in black walking about in the dark. Seriously though - I just stepped into a row this afternoon - external sparks were in installing a stair lift for wheelchair users in the theatre. I heard one mention the permanent lighting? Being a nosey ba*tard I stuck big nose in and discovered the specs call for lighting at a minimum level of 50lux at the top and bottom loading/unloading areas and this must be on when the lift is available - they interpreted this as meaning when power is on, so must be the light - all through the performance. 50 Lux is quite bright - so I've negotiated a switch operable by the usherettes. We lost 2 rows of 14 seats today too, with a non-raked wheelchair platform being installed. By my admittedly dodgy calculations, the lift doesn't have the capacity to get all 12 wheelchair spaces filled unless they all arrive when the doors are opened. If they come late, the dreadfully slow 'safe' speed will mean lots of holds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genus Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 I would suggest going to the ABTT, they are used to insane HaS regs. I remember at one point hearing that the HSE had decided that, when using a tallescope, it could not be moved while people are on the platform. Meaning that they had to come down in between each lantern etc.. The ABTT responded and put out their own guidelines which are far more sensible. Namely; outriggers whereever possible, always two people at the bottom who understand theatre geography (i.e. SL etc). They may come up with sensible - industry relevent - guidelines. Genus<{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm rather afraid, Genus, that the last ABTT 'Working At Height' course I went on was saying there should be 4 people at the bottom of a tallescope to make it safe for moving with someone at the top. I know that two is normal, but that's what their recomendation was last year (it may have changed since, I don't know.) However, in response to the OP: no, it's not just you - it really is bonkers!<{POST_SNAPBACK}> I stand corrected, my apologies, I did not do enough research. I would understand needing four people on the bottom of a talle if you were working on a steep rake but otherwise... G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac.calder Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 ...Perhaps there should be a risk-assessment... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Risk Assessments - Reduce risks by not being able to get into the space because you cannot finish all the risk assessments needed.... Has anyone done a risk assessment of doing a risk assessment - I mean there is a high risk of a paper cut (a relatively low rating hazard)... I blame this 'cover your own a$$' stuff on capitalism, Americans, the court systems, and lazy bums. It's time for change... Bring back the feudal system! Okay, maybe not... (forgot to mention - I like the fact that there are safety guidelines, however many would not be needed if people used common sense - risk assessments are in a form common sense, however the formalising of it is a pain in the rear.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterT Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 By my admittedly dodgy calculations, the lift doesn't have the capacity to get all 12 wheelchair spaces filled unless they all arrive when the doors are opened. If they come late, the dreadfully slow 'safe' speed will mean lots of holds.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes we suffer from this a lot at our theatre. you can guarantee that the wheelchair users will all turn up at 7:25 pm and moan that the show isn't starting on time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkfold Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Is it against the law to fit lifts with a reasonable speed? I was in a lift going up 7 floors recently where it took nearly ten minutes (I timed it on the way down to make sure...) Now, I'm not athletic, but I can run up to the seventh floor faster than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 For a show we did a while back where we required reasonably large scene changes, we kept on a pale blue light through a gobo rotator which looked quite good and while giving a blackout, also gave enough light for actors and stage crew to see where they were going!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
langers Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Try suggesting the use of military style night sights as a viable option for the crew!! When will the people who make up these obscenely ridiculous working practices let us theatre bods get on with what we know how to do!! drinking Tea and talking about industry related accidents !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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