Timecode for dance show

[Charlotte_R]

I'm lighting a dance show in a couple of weeks, but unfortunately I won't be able to op it. I have quite a lot of cues (80+ for about 30 minutes of music so far, and I have 15 more minutes to go), so I was wondering about timecoding it as it's all to pre-recorded music.

Unfortunately, I've never used timecode before.

In terms of equipment, I have a windows laptop with a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 (with Midi in / out) and an ETC element. I may be able to borrow a mac with Qlab. Sadly, the lighting op will be on their own - there is nobody calling the show.

 

So my questions are as follows:

1. Is it worth the time and effort to programme up timecode for a run of two shows?
2. What's the best software to play the music and get the timecode out of a Windows laptop, or should I try to get hold of a laptop with Q-lab on it?
3. What's the best way to set it all up? Does anyone have a link to a tutorial?

Thanks,

Charlotte

 

[paulears]

I've been doing dance for a long time. On a professional show, with proper theatrical rehearsals, I'd be happy with timecode. On an amateur dance school style show, I'd never risk it. I cannot think of one of these in the recent equipment years where timecode would have worked. So many end up needing LX to be very separate from sound. The usual culprit is simply lack of proper planning by the dance teachers, many who simply do not understand anything technical or have any appreciation of proper staging.

 

Using just my last show. We had a running order change just as the DSM was about to say 'Go', because a vital dancer was missing - so we skipped one and went back. We had dance numbers that were rehearsed with a 'start on' light up that on performance was a 'start off'. We had some numbers that finished early - no idea how, but the dancers were gone and 10 secs left on track. We had a number where a mid-dance LX cue was visual, but never came, and needed a cue skipping. These shows are very pretty, but very much reacting to the performer's movements which can be erratic. I'm sure from your pre-planning that this is a properly planned show where you will be able to use rehearsal time for technical, as opposed to extra dance cleaning. The idea of so many cues with an amateur show would worry me. I must admit that even a simple cue stack rarely works for me for these shows as the carefully lit section where the solo dancer is in a pool of light before the rest return often gets wreck by poor placement on stage, or dancers who simply get in the way requiring quick fader prodding to completely change the state to let them be seen.

 

 

Only you know which dance category your show is. If it's well planned and has somebody in charge who really understands what you are doing, time-code could work brilliantly, or be a total train wreck with less disciplined performers.

 

Best of luck!

[Jivemaster]

Professional well rehearsed dance shows have toured to track for years, it's how they get the same show regardless of venue. The Mitchel Minstrels toured to a 1/4" tape in the '60s, so it was the same show to time every time.

 

Amateur shows or less well rehearsed shows will run to time +/- a whole performance! If someone fluffs a bit there is no knowing where they will restart. If someone doesn't arrive on time maybe a whole act doesn't happen. In this case a show track is your downfall.

[Brian]

[*]What's the best software to play the music and get the timecode out of a Windows laptop, or should I try to get hold of a laptop with Q-lab on it?

 

 

Reaper.

 

Drop your audio onto a track and route that to outputs 1&2 of your 2i4

Drop a timecode generator onto another track and send that to your MIDI output

 

Job done. No need to mess around in MACland when a PC will do it for you.

 

[Shez]

Is your LX op in a location where they'll be able to see the current time of the playing track? As you actually have an op (I'm seeing more & more shows where the SM is tasked with operating everything, with varying degrees of failure!) I'd suggest giving them a cue sheet with both the timings and a visual description of what should be happening at the moment of the cue. Program a few subs of general "get out of jail" states for when dancers miss their marks and you're good to go.

As others have said, I think timecode would be more trouble than it's worth, especially for only two performances.

[TomHoward]

I would agree with Shez but would just add that we've found if the music has lyrics it's easier to mark up a lyrics sheet rather than use playback timings - as the op can generally follow it more easily and it's easier to recover from being lost - the dancers / performers generally find it easier to mark up and answer questions about a lyrics sheet too rather than timings as they don't know the timings of the tracks in seconds. (Only works for songs with words though)

 

But ask for a track with accurate lyrics and check it as often they'll just provide the first printout they find on the web without seeing if it has more / less choruses or repeats

[nuttytechy]

A time-code would be really more trouble for just a couple of performances. With the amount of variables which could possibly go wrong then going back to basics may be a better option.

 

I have done many dance shows and during the tech and dress rehearsal it went at as exactly as planned but on the actual performance the running order was slightly changed due to issues out of my control... (chuffing dancers!!!!).

 

What I normally do is note down my cues manually for each piece of music with a stopwatch if I am unable to get a visual timing of a piece of music then I know if I don't have a DSM calling a show then any time critical lighting cues will be planned as expected.

 

Yes it could be a pain in the backside but then you want your design to look perfect as you originally imagined it.

[Charlotte_R]

Hi again,

My show is a bit of hybrid: it's being choreographed and teched by pros (it's being produced by a professional ballet company) with amateur dancers on an outreach programme. So I think that the discipline is there to do it.

I spoke to the choreographer, and she's happy to use timecode. So I'm using timecode.

I set up Reaper with all of the tracks and an MTC output. Now I just need to get hold of the LX desk and see if it all talks to each other!

Charlotte

 

[paulears]

You spoke to the choreographer? About timecode?

 

With just one exception, the ones I work with wouldn't notice the lighting in terms of anything other than they can see, or they can't!

 

My own experience would be ringing warning bells. Amateur dancers? The ones who wreck careful focussing by failing to spot the tape on the floor, or who cannot stand in the same place twice - or space a line without thinking. Pro dancers are very good at these things, amateur ones aren't.

 

I suppose the real question is a simple one. Will your pre-programmed timecoded excellence be ruined by a rigid system that won't allow the operator to save the day when something unplanned happens. Not dance, but a dep keyboard player missed a 5/4 bar early in a heavily choreographed number and totally wrecked the ending that had BVs, lighting impact flashes and effects.

 

In your case, hopefully it will go well - but it's a brave designer who puts their trust in an untested company when they won't be there to save the bacon. You are braver than I. Only you will know how tight your lighting is - if we're talking about colour changes and flashy/flashy bits, then if these happen at the wrong time - they're still locked to the music, so will just look odd and probably nobody will even notice. If they are cues that plunge certain areas into darkness and highlight certain stylistic features ..................

 

 

Good luck. You are braver than I.

[Brian]

I think going timeocde is the right call. And here's why...

 

*) What will really jar with the audience is if the music and lighting don't match. Lighting state changes that happen off the beat, or chases that run at a different speed to the music, look really odd. If a dancer doesn't hit their mark then so be it and 99% of the audience won't notice.

 

*) It sounds like the decision to go timecode has been made early enough. That means that dance rehearsals and lighting design can take place to the same pieces of music and the same time references.

 

*) There's nothing to stop you programming up some 'get-out-of-jail' lighting states on some submasters. Give those to the LX op so that, if a dancers messes up, they can recover something whilst the main designed show continues.

 

 

That said, timdecoded shows can go horribly wrong and one day I'll write the book on how not to do it.

[lite_lad]

Timecode sounds like a very sensible solution for this.

 

I find it's the best way to be able to prepare a show in advance. When your onsite with little time it means you can just focus on whats in the cues instead of worrying about the operator getting the timings right.

 

One thing that would be worth doing is using a separate time for each song, separating them by an hour or half hour each time. This way if the order was to change then you won't have any issues.

[paulears]

I just went back on the last 9 dance shows at our theatre. TWO would have worked with timecode, the rest are the sort of organised chaos they've always been, and three of them had serious changes twenty minutes before curtain up when a video crew arrived who had asked the client about lighting, and been promised all sorts - not even mentioned during rehearsal and plotting sessions. The word 'Dance School' - the use of the term 'changing rooms', rather than dressing rooms and the insistence on having house lights full during ALL rehearsals means that start in blackout takes on a comic turn when they have to find their starting points in real darkness - everyone 3m to the left of where they ought to be. Rehearsing in a different order to the show meaning that 30 dancers are going down the stairs as 30 try to come up, and miss the start of the routine's carefully timed segue into the next track. Maybe it's just bad luck my dance show life has been with unorganised non-technical dancers. On the Strictly Ballroom tour I did a few years back, the opposite was the case - everything was timecode and locked. The cast knew how it worked and were mega tight, and it ran like clockwork. I've never done an amateur show that has been the same, or even close.

[Jivemaster]

It simply depends on the dancers' ability to do the show as booked, twice, all the same. Pro song and dance has been to track and code for years, but one or more dance schools doing their thing.... it's the thing that horror stories are written about

[Tomo]

Not even that.

 

Whether it's sensible to use timecode primarily depends on the music (and video, if there is any).

 

If the music is prerecorded* and will not change, then timecode is a good way to run.

Cues will run at exactly the right moment, every time, leaving the operator more brain space to deal with other things (and unexpected events).

 

It's generally a bad idea if the track is likely to change, because it's very difficult to deal with those changes once any timestamps have been recorded.

 

_{* Or is live using a prerecorded click track and good musicians}

[paulears]

As in with 45 mins to curtain up, the organiser gives the sound man their phone - they prodded the button and silence - turned out for the rehearsal, the audio was streaming from the school server - which worked Monday to Friday, but was down weekends. Show day was Saturday! Hastily re-downloaded from youtube. All went well until 3 minutes in, when it finished. They forgot they edited in an extra chorus and verse.

 

Timecode shows are wonderful as Tomo says - but is totally dependent on repeatability and good performers.