Line 6 interfering with desk router

[GC1971]

Hello all.

Has anyone had their console go odd when a wireless line 6 pack has been used.

Thanks

Gc

[S&L]

Hello all.

Has anyone had their console go odd when a wireless line 6 pack has been used.

Thanks

Gc

 

line 6 gear works on 2.4ghz. a mobile phone app will show you what is running on what frequencies but it's become fairly common practice to have a router running 5ghz to void digital stuff like line 6 and mobile phones.

what sort of desk and router are we talking about?

have you used a wifi analyser app to ascertain the channels that are occupied and free?

[paulears]

Line 6 have two modes. Friendly and unfriendly. Unfriendly mode is solid and bullet proof, but you have to keep your head down when sound and lighting people wander around moaning about the wifi being dreadful. friendly mode restores everyone else's operation but makes the wireless prone to interference from the same users - hence why Line 6 Users (ike me) always select unfriendly and smile very slightly when people are trying to make the lights do things using a pad as a controller, and of course those people with PA systems that NEED a pad to operate them, having no knobs. Just one can be grim, but a rack of 6 is a severe user of wifi channels.

[GC1971]

Thanks for the replies

The issues felt hardware based as in Not being able to select or pfl mix busses. The remote was rock solid no dropouts etc.

Desk was an ls9. I routinely scan snd find space is usually up at ch 13 or 14 so the router is on ch14 but no not at 5ghz

It didn't feel like a wifi issue in fact I managed to patch around it during the gig but I thought I'd ask if anyone has had hardware feeling problems as a friend has reported desks behaving oddly even without remotes being connected.

[paulears]

I've had a rack of half a dozen and separate receiver plugged into X32, plus numerous analogue desks for a few years now with no issues apart from wifi.

[bruce]

Desk was an ls9. I routinely scan snd find space is usually up at ch 13 or 14 so the router is on ch14 but no not at 5ghz

 

You do of course realise that ch14 is not licensed for use in the UK? Pretty unlikely that you’ll go to jail though....

[jamesperrett]

Desk was an ls9. I routinely scan snd find space is usually up at ch 13 or 14 so the router is on ch14 but no not at 5ghz

 

You do of course realise that ch14 is not licensed for use in the UK? Pretty unlikely that you’ll go to jail though....

 

Even channel 13 can be incompatible with some bits of kit.

[GC1971]

Desk was an ls9. I routinely scan snd find space is usually up at ch 13 or 14 so the router is on ch14 but no not at 5ghz

 

You do of course realise that ch14 is not licensed for use in the UK? Pretty unlikely that you’ll go to jail though....

 

Ehrm no.. I didn't know that. Goes scurrying off...

So it's back to what I origionally thought then, the ls9s faulty.

[Shez]

I've regularly used a rack of 10 L6 radio mics with an M32, X32 and LS9 - never had any desk issues that could be related back to the mics.

[MarkPAman]

I also have a rack of (6) lLine Six V70/75 receivers which I run in what Paul calls the unfriendly mode. With an airport express doing my dedicated desk WiFi, I've never had any problems, provided I keep the mics and receivers a metre or so away from it. ½ a meter from the iPad I'm using is OK for ringing out monitors too.

[BigYinUK]

I have an X32 and I've had Wifi issues, including a couple of times when I switched my Line6 G30 on and the desk dropped out. Symptoms are that sync appears to be lost between S16 and X32 causing a momentary loss of all sound.

 

Its not the desk's fault per se I think but appears to be data (jabber or noise maybe) on the router swamping the X32's Ethernet interface and causing the CPU in the X32 to crap out.

 

As I say I've had direct experience of my G30 causing it and punters phones (wireless access points probably) seem to be able to cause the same effect.

 

Its not a common problem or would be better known about, I suspect it may happen more with some routers than others. My Apple Airport seems less prone to it, but nowadays I tend to disconnect the ethernet port once the show starts and fingers crossed haven't had the problem since.

 

The guys at SSE put me on to it.

[J Pearce]

I work with a band where all 3 guitarists are on Line 6 transmitters, set to full power. No issues at all with my X32 Rack on a 5GHz wifi network (as you'd expect), haven't tried 2.4GHz - and the router has 2.4GHz disabled to force 5GHz connection.

 

I really would recommend 5GHz wifi for any control setup, it's a less congested band for both wifi and other devices.

[S&L]

 

Its not the desk's fault per se I think but appears to be data (jabber or noise maybe) on the router swamping the X32's Ethernet interface and causing the CPU in the X32 to crap out.

 

 

a couple of issues to be aware of:

1. theoretically the desk can NOT "crap out" from data coming back - it's OSC commands, what happens when too much data comes back is you get an OSC overflow message on the console screen that goes away once dismissed until the next overflow - the more data coming and going, the more likely that is. it doesn't touch the aes50 line directly at all. in fact the console passes signal normally while you can't alter anything until the message is dismissed. the firmware is written this way to prevent the issue you describe - it's a red traffic light that prevents exess commands proceeding further. it happens when there are lots of simultaneous users, sometimes beyond the recommended limits, sometimes within. so if you have momentary failure of stagebox, its something else causing it - none spec cable, power from different sources, volt drop on the line, clock issues etc.

BUT

2. there is an inherent issue running the apple apps - not the individual monitor mixer so much as the full ipad app etc. those apps read all the lines of data in the scene file and send it to the app, then they send back the full set of data the app has. this reading process goes on at small and regular intervals whether anything has changed or not - multiply that by enough ipads and you can get an OSC overflow - it's also theoretically possible to scramble the information going in and out, resulting in a rogue command - it's been suspected but never proven.

the same is NOT true for the 3rd party android app. aside from it's enhanced features it only passes data back to the console if there is an update - no fader movement, no eq change, means no data passing. making it a much more stable platform. of course no network is always more stable than some network.

 

I am one of 3 moderators on the facebook x32 pro users page and anecdotally I can tell you:

 

1. the majority of users run routers on 5ghz to avoid issues.

2. those users that use apple products seem to be a much higher proportion of those struggling with comms issues generally - whether ipad or router related.

3. those without an axe to grind either way are more likely to be using an android tablet than an apple tablet - even buying one just for the job. those users sticking to ipad are either fans or using it elsewhere on other sound gear or at home etc.

4. given that lots are working with 5ghz routers I haven't yet seen a report of a line 6 mic causing an issue - but few run racks of line 6 gear (it's a worldwide forum so use and operating conditions vary a lot)

5. it's been reported by quite a few that the range improves using an android tablet (samsung seems to be a favourite) vs the ipads. obviously longer range means less drop outs and less danger of garbled OSC commands arriving at the console.

 

obviously the above is at a tangent because the OP console was an LS9.

[BigYinUK]

Thanks @S&L for that additional detail. Very interesting.

 

It was indeed the case that when we had issues with the desk our enginner would have been using either his Apple Macbook or his iPad.

 

I've not had trouble myself when I'm running the rig - I use an Android tablet (Tesco Hudl 2 to be precise).

 

My Apple Airport AP is config'd to use only the 5Ghz band and I've had no issues with wireless connectivity, inc range.

 

Regards.

[sunray]

Desk was an ls9. I routinely scan snd find space is usually up at ch 13 or 14 so the router is on ch14 but no not at 5ghz

You do of course realise that ch14 is not licensed for use in the UK? Pretty unlikely that you'll go to jail though....

When was it declared illegal?

I know the spread appears to be outside the band allocated in the UK but the last I looked, I thought I read that CH14 was included within the appropriate CEPT standard and therefore legitimate within the UK.