First Gig with Touring Band - Help ....?

[Uriahdemon]

Hi, reasonable newbie here...............

 

I have been lighting bands up on and off at various sized events for a couple of years but this has been infrequently around my day job. So I have my own rig and control desk etc which I am entirely used to.

 

I have been asked to do the lighting for a band on a small UK tour (one night only so far) which means pitching up at the venue and using their in house fixtures.

 

My approach is to pre-programme the show (as much as I can) so on arrival I plug in and go. I received a Tech Spec from the venue but it is very generic (well to me it was). No specifics on some of the fixtures just a name so they could be 1 of 6 types, no DMX addresses, no positioning information (measurements).

Are these observations realistic or am I looking for too much.

 

Also I have my desk already programmed up for my fixtures. Are there any tricks to transpose that over to the in house fixtures or do I need to set all my cues and playbacks up from scratch (I have a Zero88 FLX desk).

 

Grateful for any help or advice you can provide please.

[J Pearce]

I tour venues from small clubs with 6 LED PARs up to places like main room o2 academy venues (with a medieval themed death metal band who have a lot of theatre in the show).

 

I have a MagicQ showfile that has my floor package programmed, plus 10 generic colour wash units, 10 generic moving wash/beams, 10 generic moving spots, and bits for front light, haze/smoke, blinders etc.

 

When I get to a venue I morph those fixtures in the patch to match the venue stock, cloning if I need more, deleting if I need less. Then I update position and beam palettes, check colour and strobe palettes, and then my show is good to go. I sometimes have to do a bit of replotting to accommodate different fixture types, or oddities of rig design.

 

Getting advance information is hit and miss depending on the venue. Getting a rig list is usual, getting a rig plan is less usual, getting a list of DMX addresses and modes is rare. I usually end up reverse engineering the patch by reading it out from the venue desk.

 

In smaller club venues space for a touring desk is often problematic. I tour a chamsys mini wing and a 17” touchscreen laptop. I wouldn’t want to try to fit anything much bigger in unless I knew we had a run of larger rooms.

[Uriahdemon]

I tour venues from small clubs with 6 LED PARs up to places like main room o2 academy venues (with a medieval themed death metal band who have a lot of theatre in the show).

 

I have a MagicQ showfile that has my floor package programmed, plus 10 generic colour wash units, 10 generic moving wash/beams, 10 generic moving spots, and bits for front light, haze/smoke, blinders etc.

 

When I get to a venue I morph those fixtures in the patch to match the venue stock, cloning if I need more, deleting if I need less. Then I update position and beam palettes, check colour and strobe palettes, and then my show is good to go. I sometimes have to do a bit of replotting to accommodate different fixture types, or oddities of rig design.

 

Getting advance information is hit and miss depending on the venue. Getting a rig list is usual, getting a rig plan is less usual, getting a list of DMX addresses and modes is rare. I usually end up reverse engineering the patch by reading it out from the venue desk.

 

In smaller club venues space for a touring desk is often problematic. I tour a chamsys mini wing and a 17" touchscreen laptop. I wouldn't want to try to fit anything much bigger in unless I knew we had a run of larger rooms.

 

 

Thanks very much for your reply.... I really appreciate it and some really interesting stuff in there and some which I must admit to not quite understanding which I believe is the crux of my problem. Would you please mind in expanding on the following:

 

• What is a floor package
• When you say 'Generic' cues/playbacks what does that mean, what state are they
• In generic terms how do you morph the fixtures

Rgds

 

Mac

 

[timsabre]

Floor package = lights standing on the floor (e.g. floor standing trusses with fixtures on the top or whatever)

 

By "Generic" he means that he has picked a fairly standard fixture and programmed his show using those.

Eg for a generic colour wash something like a Robe Robin 600, moving wash/beam something like a Robe Pointe (just for example)

 

I don't know how you morph fixtures on your Zero88 desk, but you basically tell the desk that the Robin 600's have changed to Mac Auras for example. The desk, knowing where the control channels are for the old and new fixtures, will adjust the programming to work with the new fixture. It might get some things slightly wrong, usually positions or gobos, so this is why you should program all your cues using palettes rather than absolute positions set in each cue. It is then relatively simple to amend the position palettes for the new fixtures and all your cues which use those palettes will be right again.

[paulears]

I'm forever surprised by the treatment I receive truing theatres. It ranges from instant help on arrival, people who actually zoom up and ask where you need power, introducing everyone, and basically watching the in at a distance ready to suggest things, give you the patches, and make life easy - at the other end of the scale, the only help is opening the dock door, or even NOT opening the dock door, as it's locked/jammed/not able to be used. Despite sending the advance info, and getting no responses, crazy rules suddenly appear, many linked to payment. "Do you want to use our house movers? it's X pounds" Bans on haze and all kinds of rubbish. The most common thing in theatres, usually 400-900 seats is that they've lost the patch sheet, so are very reluctant to hand you a cable to get access to their kit, even if you spent ages telling them about your floor package, but need to tie into the house system for foh light. Quite a few times, we do indeed have the 4 profiles FOH we asked for, but there is no access to focus them because the seats have been put out and we were too late arriving. We don't even need very much from them - just some individual face lights and 4 colours - that's all we ask for. We might bring in a dozen movers - six bits of vertical truss with floor plates, and the remainder set up on the floor behind - maybe a few LED bars, certainly nothing more complex than that - and far too often we end up using that with the four face lights not connected to the MagicQ - they're just ....on. The venues with younger technical people like to fiddle, and the ones with 'seen it before' staff hate one-nighters and especially our age bands and audiences.

 

What I have discovered is that getting responses from the advance documents means nothing at all. The people who answer them are not the people you meet on the day. Luckily, most venues tend to be good - but the bad ones are dire. This matters little if you're doing modern stuff at non-theatre venues - so large function suites, big hotels, sports centres and exhibition venues all seem to have mainly hired on kit, and their people are happy to do anything in general.

[J Pearce]

As others have also commented on above:

 

Floor package - touring rig that sits on the floor and supplements the venue rig. For my show that's 4 LED PARs, 4 birdies, a strobe, and two custom built lanterns that light two banners and also act as blinders. Really quite small and simple, but if the venue has nothing or I can't get control of their rig I still have a show, AND we can get it on and off in 15 min changeovers, which is important for the gigs we do.

 

Generic units - I use a 6 ch LED RGBW Dim Strobe profile for colour wash, Mac2000 Wash for moving beam/washlights, Mac2000 Profile for moving spots. They have all the features my show needs, and are fairly fully featured units, so I don't end up with any missing data when I morph fixtures.

 

Morphing fixtures changes by desk, I've never stood behind an FLX so I can't help there, but Zero88 support probably could. It's not always called morph, so manufacturers use different terminology. MagicQ morphing is really quite intelligent and generally gets colour and strobe right and seems to make a good go at matching gobos.

 

In short, preferably in advance of arriving at the venue, I get their rig plan, and then repatch my show to fit their rig by changing fixture types (morphing), cloning (duplicating) fixtures if they have more than 10 of anything, and deleting any spares (keeps effects spread consistent). All this is done while maintaining the data in my cues and playbacks, so that my timecoded stuff still works properly, and my manually operated stuff (largely still busked for me as the rigs change so much gig to gig) stays consistent so I know where to find everything.

[Uriahdemon]

Floor package = lights standing on the floor (e.g. floor standing trusses with fixtures on the top or whatever)

 

By "Generic" he means that he has picked a fairly standard fixture and programmed his show using those.

Eg for a generic colour wash something like a Robe Robin 600, moving wash/beam something like a Robe Pointe (just for example)

 

I don't know how you morph fixtures on your Zero88 desk, but you basically tell the desk that the Robin 600's have changed to Mac Auras for example. The desk, knowing where the control channels are for the old and new fixtures, will adjust the programming to work with the new fixture. It might get some things slightly wrong, usually positions or gobos, so this is why you should program all your cues using palettes rather than absolute positions set in each cue. It is then relatively simple to amend the position palettes for the new fixtures and all your cues which use those palettes will be right again.

 

Thanks very much for that, I am taking along some of my own 'Floor Package' which as long as I can hook into their power and DMX cabling should be OK. I will check what the desk is capable of regarding morphing fixtures but understand what you mean by this now.

The message on using palettes is loud and clear I picked that up a few months ago and use that approach now. Thanks very much for your help.

 

I'm forever surprised by the treatment I receive truing theatres. It ranges from instant help on arrival, people who actually zoom up and ask where you need power, introducing everyone, and basically watching the in at a distance ready to suggest things, give you the patches, and make life easy - at the other end of the scale, the only help is opening the dock door, or even NOT opening the dock door, as it's locked/jammed/not able to be used. Despite sending the advance info, and getting no responses, crazy rules suddenly appear, many linked to payment. "Do you want to use our house movers? it's X pounds" Bans on haze and all kinds of rubbish. The most common thing in theatres, usually 400-900 seats is that they've lost the patch sheet, so are very reluctant to hand you a cable to get access to their kit, even if you spent ages telling them about your floor package, but need to tie into the house system for foh light. Quite a few times, we do indeed have the 4 profiles FOH we asked for, but there is no access to focus them because the seats have been put out and we were too late arriving. We don't even need very much from them - just some individual face lights and 4 colours - that's all we ask for. We might bring in a dozen movers - six bits of vertical truss with floor plates, and the remainder set up on the floor behind - maybe a few LED bars, certainly nothing more complex than that - and far too often we end up using that with the four face lights not connected to the MagicQ - they're just ....on. The venues with younger technical people like to fiddle, and the ones with 'seen it before' staff hate one-nighters and especially our age bands and audiences.

 

What I have discovered is that getting responses from the advance documents means nothing at all. The people who answer them are not the people you meet on the day. Luckily, most venues tend to be good - but the bad ones are dire. This matters little if you're doing modern stuff at non-theatre venues - so large function suites, big hotels, sports centres and exhibition venues all seem to have mainly hired on kit, and their people are happy to do anything in general.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience..... I get the impression I may be dealing with a not so helpful or caring venue and intend using their in house fixtures and adding some of my own. Forewarned is forearmed and all that ** laughs out loud **

 

As others have also commented on above:

 

Floor package - touring rig that sits on the floor and supplements the venue rig. For my show that's 4 LED PARs, 4 birdies, a strobe, and two custom built lanterns that light two banners and also act as blinders. Really quite small and simple, but if the venue has nothing or I can't get control of their rig I still have a show, AND we can get it on and off in 15 min changeovers, which is important for the gigs we do.

 

Generic units - I use a 6 ch LED RGBW Dim Strobe profile for colour wash, Mac2000 Wash for moving beam/washlights, Mac2000 Profile for moving spots. They have all the features my show needs, and are fairly fully featured units, so I don't end up with any missing data when I morph fixtures.

 

Morphing fixtures changes by desk, I've never stood behind an FLX so I can't help there, but Zero88 support probably could. It's not always called morph, so manufacturers use different terminology. MagicQ morphing is really quite intelligent and generally gets colour and strobe right and seems to make a good go at matching gobos.

 

In short, preferably in advance of arriving at the venue, I get their rig plan, and then repatch my show to fit their rig by changing fixture types (morphing), cloning (duplicating) fixtures if they have more than 10 of anything, and deleting any spares (keeps effects spread consistent). All this is done while maintaining the data in my cues and playbacks, so that my timecoded stuff still works properly, and my manually operated stuff (largely still busked for me as the rigs change so much gig to gig) stays consistent so I know where to find everything.

This info is just the sort of thing I am after and thanks very much indeed. I will progress with my programming now and also see if I can get some info from Zero88 as well as the venue.

 

Is it standard for me to turn up with power/DMX extensions and use them as I need to. Also can I expect a DMX lead somewhere in the control area to take the output.... would that be too much to expect....??

 

Rgds

 

Mac

 

 

 

[J Pearce]

I never rely on venue DMX for my floor package - if nothing else you don't know what addresses will be spare for your rig and then you'll end up readdressing at every venue (which is boring). I use my wing output for my floor package, and have a 2 port node for venue rig. Some venues will need 2 universes for house rig. I carry a 40M FOH loom that does DMX and smoke control (non DMX smoke machine), and 3-5, 5-3, and gender benders just to cover all bases.

Depending on venue sizes your experiences will likely vary from having dedicated touring LX DMX lines, to being able to steal an audio tie line, to running a cable, to ending up sidestage because you couldn't run a cable. Similarly, an o2 academy mainstage will likely have a 63/3 or similar, a smaller independent 400 cap might only have 13A sockets, or maybe a 32 single phase. My whole floor package fits on 1 13A, drawing 2kW at peak (blinders and strobe both at full).

[Edward- Z88]

Hi Mac,

 

Just replied to your email regarding fixture morphing and palette references. On FLX we call “Fixture Morphing” “Fixture Swap-outs”.

 

Any queries feel free to send me an email or post here.

 

Kind regards

Edward

[Uriahdemon]

I never rely on venue DMX for my floor package - if nothing else you don't know what addresses will be spare for your rig and then you'll end up readdressing at every venue (which is boring). I use my wing output for my floor package, and have a 2 port node for venue rig. Some venues will need 2 universes for house rig. I carry a 40M FOH loom that does DMX and smoke control (non DMX smoke machine), and 3-5, 5-3, and gender benders just to cover all bases.

 

Depending on venue sizes your experiences will likely vary from having dedicated touring LX DMX lines, to being able to steal an audio tie line, to running a cable, to ending up sidestage because you couldn't run a cable. Similarly, an o2 academy mainstage will likely have a 63/3 or similar, a smaller independent 400 cap might only have 13A sockets, or maybe a 32 single phase. My whole floor package fits on 1 13A, drawing 2kW at peak (blinders and strobe both at full).

 

Thanks Jon,

 

some food for thought !!!!

 

Hi Mac,

 

Just replied to your email regarding fixture morphing and palette references. On FLX we call "Fixture Morphing" "Fixture Swap-outs".

 

Any queries feel free to send me an email or post here.

 

Kind regards

Edward

 

Thanks Ed, email replied to and much appreciated.

 

 

 

 

 

[numberwrong]

What J pearce said

 

Also, there will always be a time when, even with the most flexible show file and prior information you'll have to wing it on the venue desk a mix of the two.

 

Identify what is achievable in the time available early on, adapt what you were panning to do if necessary.

 

I did a corporate gig once on a Jands Vista. There was a Cirque du soleil act on and the LD had never used a Vista. He got me to programme 6 cues and 6 pallets in about 5 min. His show was amazingly simple but 100% effective. That taught me that you can create magic in 5 min on a desk you've never used on a rig you've never seen

[timsabre]

Yes I did a show like that last year with Roger Searle (of Pink Floyd fame) as LD. We couldn't get the house DMX link working and ended up with the house generics on their Ion and hired in movers on a Tiger Touch. I programmed a few cues on the avo desk and he just played the 2 desks like an instrument, it was amazing to watch.

[Modge]

There was a Cirque du soleil act on and the LD had never used a Vista. He got me to programme 6 cues and 6 pallets in about 5 min. His show was amazingly simple but 100% effective. That taught me that you can create magic in 5 min on a desk you've never used on a rig you've never seen

 

There is something very educational, and humbling, about programming a desk up, sticking in the 2 extra states the visiting LD has time to ask for, then him delivering something out of this world.

[Uriahdemon]

There was a Cirque du soleil act on and the LD had never used a Vista. He got me to programme 6 cues and 6 pallets in about 5 min. His show was amazingly simple but 100% effective. That taught me that you can create magic in 5 min on a desk you've never used on a rig you've never seen

 

There is something very educational, and humbling, about programming a desk up, sticking in the 2 extra states the visiting LD has time to ask for, then him delivering something out of this world.

 

Thanks everyone for your help on this. Some really good information which has helped hugely.