Strand SL vs ETC Source 4

[peter]

Poll added, 08/10/03 20:05

[Ben]

Re balancing problem with the S4 profiles.

Has anyone used the balancing yoke which is available as an extra?

Hiff sow whaa da fink?

yup and solves the problem, much better and very easy to use, pity it costs extra really

[Stu]

Re balancing problem with the S4 profiles.

Has anyone used the balancing yoke which is available as an extra?

Hiff sow whaa da fink?

yup and solves the problem, much better and very easy to use, pity it costs extra really

Kind of the thing I wouldn't buy on principal. If they can't be bothered to implement it into the design, why should I buy a expensive lantern, and then shove a new yoke on it, just because they obviously didn't do their R&D well enough.

 

Madness! (I've fallen for a lampost etc)

 

Stu

[Ben P]

On the same lines though - but different I would pick SL Zooms for all the reasons mentioned by others, but then I would go for the Source 4 fixed lamp over the SL. Why can't ETC hold there hand up and say we got it wrong?

 

How about even making a zoomable lense unit that you put on the front of a normal body - would not be to hard??

 

The you can pick between having your 19, 26, 36, 50 or your 15/30 or 25/50 all in the same lamp body??

 

Only one criticism of Source 4 fixed is that the 36 deg sometimes does silly things with optics......

 

Ben

[Stu]

Totally agree with you there Ben_P. Surely even a basic level of R&D, or road testing a prototype would have revealed it was god damn awful.

 

The moral of this story is use S4 Fixed over SL Zoom over S4 Zoom.

 

(Must get my hands on some Selecons to try...)

 

S.

[Ben P]

Well I would be interested to know what people who voted not for Source 4 and SL would go for - surely not Sil 30's?

 

Selecon - umm never used them in anger, but not that desperate to either.

 

Ben

[andy_s]

size for size I'd rather have a S4 zoom than a Cadenza any day. Does anyone still have any? I'm sure my bad back dates from the week the Chief LX made all us juniors replace all the T64s on bridge 2 with his new cadenzas. And all for a bit of extra light. I don't know - how we suffer for our art. otherwise I'd express a preference for SL zooms over S4 zooms, and S4 fixed over most other things. Im also quite impressed by the new moving zoom - if it's still running as quietly and smoothly after a bit of time in service, I would be keen to have a few....although I did hear that changing the lamp might not be as simple as it appears - apparently one of the judges pulled the lampbase off the glass envelope when trying to remove it at PLASA. I expect this was a dodgy lamp, however.

[Stu]

I know the Mayflower (Southampton) just replaced their Strand Cadenza's with S4 750w - not sure what degrees mind, perhaps 10?

 

I'm glad I've not come across Cadenza's... They look a little large for my liking.

 

In fact does anyone use 2k profiles (Altos, Toccatas?) anymore for FOH? Perhaps the big opera houses?

 

S.

[Kate]

Out of interest, does the Source Four Jnr zoom suffer the same (or similar) problems?

Ok folks, my tuppenceworth:

 

The times I've used S4 Jnr zooms, I've found them to be really good. Properly focusable, and a completely different animal from the terribly bulky and badly balanced S4 Zoom.

 

Fixed beam profiles are always the best choice for yummy optics, aren't they? And the S4 range is the probably the best you'll get.

 

The SL is very impressive, but doesn't seem very durable. Sticky lenses, frail knobs (oo-er missus! ), that kind of thing. One of the last times I used one, the mastic holding the lens in place came unstuck!! ;)

 

I haen't used the Selecon pacific much, but they do seem really rather lovely, even if physically they're a bit more bulky the either the S4 or SL. You can still get a really good sharp edge on them even when you've got them as wide as ****. We used them for snow dropper specials last panto, with very pleasing results.

 

Horses for courses though, isn't it? :D

[James]

Well I would be interested to know what people who voted not for Source 4 and SL would go for - surely not Sil 30's?

 

(well sil 15's actually ;) )

 

Seriously I have never used either S4 or SL zooms - To be Truthful I've only used s4's before - With the type of show I light I end up using P23's P794's (Truly awful) Minuettes or Sils' because I have them, therefore no extra cost to the client.

 

Also - (much against my better judgement) I haven't had a single propper tasty lighting job since May 2002 most people seem to want to hire me to do their sound (don't know why - as I don't do it..) - so unfortunatly there isn't any likleyhood of any serious investment in my invantory in the coming future. :D

 

I answered truthfuly - With most of my jobs, by preference I would end up using something else - beccause they are too much of a luxuary at the moment.

 

James

[Ian_P]

I light a very small stage (22x13) (feet that is!) and our old Strand Preludes are not really up to the job of gobo projections, and once budget was approved we purchased a number of Source Four Junior Zooms and a single S4 Zoom 25-50.

 

I would agree that the balance of the S4Zoom could be better, the 25-50 isn't as bad for being unbalanced, but I love the quality of the light it outputs, and it certainly alot lighter in weight than the ADB DW105 that I used to use. I hate rigging that ADB, it's just too heavy! ;)

 

The Junior Zooms on the other hand are superb, small in size, very bright, and only 575W. Very important for small venues where every amp has to count. I wish I could replace the rest of the profiles with them. :D

 

The jump from Furse JFRs, Strand Preludes and biscuit tin floods to these lights has to be seen to be believed. S4Zoom Gobo projection of the clock face of Big Ben in 'Dick Barton: Special Agent' was breathtaking! (IMO! :D )

 

A collegue has a set of SL fixed focus which I have used and they are good, but I guess I am biased after getting the Source 4s.

 

Projection of home printed gobos as promised by the Selecon lanterns is very tempting, has anyone tried this?

[themadhippy]

How about even making a zoomable lense unit that you put on the front of a normal body

pacfics do ;)

Projection of home printed gobos as promised by the Selecon lanterns is very tempting, has anyone tried this

selecon olny recomend using the 600w version for ohp gobos,ours are 1lw so I aint risked it.

yet

however it is nice to able to pay around with stuff in the gate without burning your fingers within 2 millisecons,even after a minute or 2 gobos are still cool enough to change

[gareth]

I've never used a Selecon Pacific in anger, so I couldn't comment on those, but I've used pretty much every other sub-kilowatt profile and I'd concur with what most people seem to be saying, which is that Source4 fixed-angle is better than SL zoom, which in turn is better than Source4 zoom.

 

No-one's mentioned Altman Shakespeares yet ... my local theatre (Clwyd Theatr Cymru) has a couple of dozen of them in the main house, and they're not too bad - a bit nose-heavy (but nowhere near as much as a S4 zoom), and buggers to clean, but pretty decent lanterns (they take a GKV600, same as SL's). The theatre also has some CCT Freedoms (40-odd of them) in the studio, and while they're much better than the very early versions of that lantern (which I had the misfortune to encounter when they tried to sell some to a venue at which I used to work) they're still not very pleasant to work with. CTC also own quite a few SLs (around 60-odd, if I remember correctly, a mixture of wide and narrow zooms) which are split between the two spaces, and they are by far the nicest profiles they own (which is not difficult when you consider that the remainder of the stock is Sil 30's and Sil 15's - altogether, something like 70 of the little buggers!)

[stebee]

hey,

 

I've got 24 x S4 zooms and 24 S4 fixed beams in my theatre and another 24 S4 fixed in my studio and I have never had anyone complain about the weight or nose heavy factor on the zooms. what are you people up to when it comes to focusing? do you not hold onto the lamp when you undo the trunion arm lock? and on the S4 zoom there are TWO of them so you would really need to be not concentrating to let the nose fall!

 

the only thing I'm going to change when the budget comes through is the lamps in the studio are getting changed for junior zooms and the zooms in the theatre are getting bumped up to 750s.

 

a great lamp and I'm sure the next evolution will be even better

 

ste

[Stu]

do you not hold onto the lamp when you undo the trunion arm lock? and on the S4 zoom there are TWO of them so you would really need to be not concentrating to let the nose fall!

The issue I moaned about the most was the fact on some of the models, they don't have anywhere for you to put your hand when undoing the lock on the yoke, hence frying your hand, as the only place most pratical to put it is on the back...

 

Some of the models also only have the 1 lock, which is also a bit of a pain in the arse if your on the wrong side of the lantern.

 

Don't get me wrong, perhaps they are suitable for you etc, but the way we used the 6 on this week show, it was awakard enough to focus them with 1 hand, let alone 2. A SL zoom would have been so much nicer in the situation (Or any some might argue).

 

S

 

PS. Oh yeh just noticed the avatar... I shall join Gareth in a # Badger, Badger, Badger, Badger # ;)