gareth Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 what are you people up to when it comes to focusing? do you not hold onto the lamp when you undo the trunion arm lock? and on the S4 zoom there are TWO of them so you would really need to be not concentrating to let the nose fall!The lovely thing about a lantern that's pretty well balanced across the tilt pivot is that it makes one-handed focussing much easier. Slacken the tilt off just enough that you can move the lantern, but so that there's still just enough friction there to stop it swinging freely ; set desired tilt ; lock off. So much easier when you're focussing lanterns that can be a bit of an awkward reach - pros booms, etc. Love the Avatar, Stebee, by the way - "Badger badger badger badger ...." ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben P Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 Well knowing that the Show Stu has this week is the same as we had last week when you add KK wheels to the front of the S4 zooms then it makes it even harder when you are not balanced. It's even worse when it's scrollers and top hats + oh and your trying to focus them hanging over the circle rail, with just your feet making sure that you don't fall in to the stalls and break your back. ;) I just don't understand when the source 4 (and especially the junior) is so small why the zoom can't be only a little bigger!! Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 Well knowing that the Show Stu has this week is the same as we had last week when you add KK wheels to the front of the S4 zooms then it makes it even harder when you are not balanced.Nice detective work Sherlock ;) Ah you had them on the circle? Well we've got them in the slots, meaning I need one hand to hang of the slots scaff structure, so I've only got the one hand free! But yes I stand by my statement of using SLs for the effect would have certainly been easier to focus from my POV. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshwah Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 I prefer the source 4 zooms over sl's I have to say I've never had problems focusing them but I agree on the whole trying to sell them as one handed focusable light cos thats not true. But they are great lanterns and better optics than the sl imho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sguy42 Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 There's a big difference in the balance between the narrow and wide zooms, the wide is manageable, the narrow is much worse. When they were first shown at PLASA the narrows had the additional balancing yoke included for free (now about £50). The wides did not. shane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elarsen Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 light output from s4 so much better than `SLIf you're talking about a 750w S4, then yes. However, I challenge you to tell the difference in a blind comparison between a 575w S4 and a 600w SL. The light output from the Source Four Zoom 15-30 with 575W HPL lamp is about the double of the Strand SL.Check yourself - or have a look at the photometrics at www.etcconnect.com. Regards Erik LarsenProduct ManagerETC Europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lightnix Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 I find the best way to balance the 15-30 degree (narrow zoom) is to set the tilt focus as near as possible, with the clamp slightly loose so that it can rotate around the bar. Lock off the tilt, let the lamp find it's balance point and then lock off the clamp. Apart from that, I like the S4 zooms on the whole - very user friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickGale Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 For those of you who want to try plastic gobo's in 1K Pacific's just run them at about 75% max. The key here is to experiment! You can also use the Rosco Image Pro in any Pacific including the MSR 575 (we've tried it for 24 hours with a flat beam). As we have seen from the discussions on this board many different factors make up a good zoom. The best way to decide on the correct zoom for your venue is to try all of them, anyone who wants a Pacific for a demo can contact me directly! Nick Gale UK Sales Manager Selecon Seleconngale@seleconlight.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elarsen Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 Re balancing problem with the S4 profiles.Has anyone used the balancing yoke which is available as an extra?Hiff sow whaa da fink?Never seen one - find it quite sad, however, that you have to pay extra to get a lantern on which the tilt pivot is balanced ... Well, you could choose to see it another way: As most profiles are focussed downwards, balance very often isn't a problem.For this reason shipping the zoom without the balanced yoke has allowed us to offer you a zoom at a better price.The Source Four Zoom is very affordable compared with the Strand SL! Regards Erik LarsenProduct ManagerETC Europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elarsen Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 For those of you who want to try plastic gobo's in 1K Pacific's just run them at about 75% max. The key here is to experiment! You can also use the Rosco Image Pro in any Pacific including the MSR 575 (we've tried it for 24 hours with a flat beam). As we have seen from the discussions on this board many different factors make up a good zoom. The best way to decide on the correct zoom for your venue is to try all of them, anyone who wants a Pacific for a demo can contact me directly! Nick Gale UK Sales Manager Selecon Seleconngale@seleconlight.comNick has a very good point here actually, Go ahead and try the product in comparison with others.See the light output and quality, gobo imaging and focus mecanism, carry them around to check the weight and ease of handling before making your choice. Regards Erik LarsenProduct ManagerETC Europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 Nick has a very good point here actually, Go ahead and try the product in comparison with others.See the light output and quality, gobo imaging and focus mecanism, carry them around to check the weight and ease of handling before making your choice. Regards Erik LarsenProduct ManagerETC Europe So Erik - are you offering a free loan model for demo as well so that we can make an informed decision? (Sorry - Not trying to be cheeky only am helping advise someone on new profiles for his arts centre and it would be nice if he could have a go with the different options before deciding which ones he prefers) James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 As most profiles are focussed downwards, balance very often isn't a problem.Ummm what about all the ones in slots, FOH bridges, circle rails, booms etc etc? S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 As most profiles are focussed downwards, balance very often isn't a problem.Ummm what about all the ones in slots, FOH bridges, circle rails, booms etc etc? S Took the words right out of my mouth, Stu. Let's take the show I'm working on right now as an example .... somewhere around 70 profiles in the rig, the majority of which are focussed at 45 degrees or less from the horizontal. There are a similar number (or maybe slightly more) of parcans in the rig, which on the whole are used in a much more 'toppy' way than the profiles, the majority of which do FOH washes and gobo crosslights. I think that's fairly typical of the way profiles are used. By and large, the only times when you'd need to focus a profile vertically downwards (or close to it) is if you were doing some sort of gobo top light, or something like a tightly-shuttered toplight special of some sort. In the majority of situations where you'd find profiles being used (FOH, crosslight, gobo projection, etc.) you'd be looking at a much shallower angle of tilt. So to say that most profiles are focussed downwards is just plain rubbish, and I hope this statement is not indicative of the general understanding within ETC product managers of the kind of ways in which their products are used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elarsen Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 In regards to the issue of ìnose heavinessî, when we first introduced this zoom, we did have a balance yoke as part of the design, however many users requested that we also offer the product with the regular yoke at a less expensive price and offer the ìbalanced yokeî as an option for additional money. If the market feels that this should be a standard option (on the 15/30 degree variant), we will certainly consider this. Let us all recognize that when researching new products, there are many choices made. With the S4 Zoom, our market research indicated that there was a strong preference for ìhigh outputî in order to reduce the occasions where a 2k or even a 2.5k fixture is required. One of the reasons, the Source 4 Zoom is wider than its fixed beam predecessor is due to the fact that we needed to enlarge the optical system to allow more light to pass through and subsequently out of the barrel. Our research at the time indicated that the market would accept a larger color media/accessory format in return for the increased output. Many zoom profiles actually under-perform against their fixed beam cousins due to the fact that there are often ìf-stopsî and possibly additional glass surfaces introduced into the optical train. Even with the advanced coatings available today, every surface that the light passes through reduces output. The goal of a well designed optical system is to take as much of the light that is produced from the lamp/globe and make sure it exits the front of the luminaire and does not get lost inside. The three main ingredients to this formula are lamp, reflector and lense. In the case of the Source 4 (both fixed and zoom), we start with the smallest ìpoint sourceî lamp/globe and design the reflector and lenses to control and output as much of the light energy as possible. Having already designed the Source 4 Junior Zoom, the market was still looking for greater output, thus came the Source 4 Zoom. The best way to compare is to inspect this for yourself. Please contact any of our Dealers, Distributors or Regional offices to request a demonstration. I would recommend that you include the Source 4 Junior Zoom in your analysis as well since we have found that it actually out performs some of its more ìseniorî competitors. In closing, I want to thank everyone for their extremely valid input. This is the only way, we as a company can continue to make better tools for you to use. Always feel free to email me at bgallinghouse@etcconnect.com with any thoughts or ideas you may have. Sincerely, Bill Gallinghouse Vice President Business Development & Marketing Electronic Theatre Controls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 many users requested that we also offer the product with the regular yoke at a less expensive price and offer the ìbalanced yokeî as an option for additional money. If the market feels that this should be a standard option (on the 15/30 degree variant), we will certainly consider this.My opinion on this subject, personally, is that the lantern should come with the balancing yoke - It seems to me alot of companies/theatres (etc) are trying to save the odd bob, and a house which has just bought 20x S4 Zoom 15/30s, to discover they aren't balanced quite as well as they hoped, might not be favourites with the purchasing department when they try to squeeze some more Notes to buy the yokes. In other words, I kinda if it doesn't come with the unit in the first place, it might never get into the venue! Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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