nikkicallaghan Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 this will sound a little basic, but I'm running a few cheap led pars via a jester ml48. The issue I have is the colours aren't setting to the new ones between cues. Is this an ltp or htp issue as in do I need to change the desk settings to ltp or the other way round. The rest of the rig is generics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgallen Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Nikki could you re-express your observations and question? The issue I have is the colours aren't setting to the new ones between cues. When you say "between cues" - do you mean something like "In Cue 1 they are red, in Cue 2 they should be blue but they are staying red"? Is this an ltp or htp issue as in do I need to change the desk settings to ltp or the other way round. The rest of the rig is generics Colour attributes would normally be LTP. HTP doesn't really make much sense for colour: HTP refers more to how a number of interacting dimmer instructions would behave. I don't know Jester 48ML, but I'd be surprised if if has a mode that switches between "all LTP" and "all HTP", since I'd expect dimmers to behave HTP and colour/beam/shape/position to be LTP. Hopefully Edward or Jon will be along in a moment to flesh out the details, but a clarification of your question would help regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ojc123 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Is your software up to date? When ours came out the box there were issues with the dimmers and fixtures being out of sync. The dimmers would change one cue ahead of the fixtures if I remember correctly. It was a bit odd really. We updated the software and the problem was resolved. I'm no expert but that might be worth checking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shez Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 HTP doesn't really make much sense for colourFor additive LED type colours, it unfortunately does make a certain amount of sense. (One of my colleagues is insistent that HTP is the only way of using LED colours and that LTP is totally wrong for that). It does of course depend on what you're programming. If you programme a red sub and a blue sub, putting them up together to get purple is totally intuitive; LTP won't work at all for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgallen Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 HTP doesn't really make much sense for colourFor additive LED type colours, it unfortunately does make a certain amount of sense. (One of my colleagues is insistent that HTP is the only way of using LED colours and that LTP is totally wrong for that). It does of course depend on what you're programming. If you programme a red sub and a blue sub, putting them up together to get purple is totally intuitive; LTP won't work at all for that. Sure. The way Zero88 tend to handle this (at least on the higher end desks and I can't speak for how other vendors do this) is through "tagging", so the sub would have tags down at the parameter level (rather than the whole colour attribute) so only red colour was tagged or only blue colour was tagged. This would allow the sub to only affect the blue colour channel and the red remain unaffected, even with an LTP style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 HTP doesn't really make much sense for colourFor additive LED type colours, it unfortunately does make a certain amount of sense. (One of my colleagues is insistent that HTP is the only way of using LED colours and that LTP is totally wrong for that). It does of course depend on what you're programming. If you programme a red sub and a blue sub, putting them up together to get purple is totally intuitive; LTP won't work at all for that. Sure. The way Zero88 tend to handle this (at least on the higher end desks and I can't speak for how other vendors do this) is through "tagging", so the sub would have tags down at the parameter level (rather than the whole colour attribute) so only red colour was tagged or only blue colour was tagged. This would allow the sub to only affect the blue colour channel and the red remain unaffected, even with an LTP style. Does Zero88 fade LTP values with the submaster position then? I'd expect the LTP value to set as the sub left zero and remain once you pulled the sub back down. Otherwise a program with moving lights in a certain position would wave around as you fade up the submaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgallen Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Does Zero88 fade LTP values with the submaster position then? I'd expect the LTP value to set as the sub left zero and remain once you pulled the sub back down. Otherwise a program with moving lights in a certain position would wave around as you fade up the submaster. Sorry Nikki, we're getting a bit off topic! Tim - well yes, they can do either, at least on the higher desks (FLX, Orb, probably Solution). As Shez points out there can be a conundrum with the colour channels as the "blue LED channel" can be viewed as a dimmer channel, or the fixture could be seen as colour channels, triggered (at say 5% of channel) as LTP and then the master dimmer channel behaves as HTP. Likewise with position, you could use your sub fader position as a proportional scaling control on the final pan/tilt position - I remember Jon demoing "sweep blinders up across the audience" with the fader when we did the FLX training. I'd have to admit I'm now at the limit of my knowledge on the desk abilities, since whilst I have lots of LEDs I only have a single MAC250 mover...but I'd expect this functionality is not unusual for the more powerful desks? Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikkicallaghan Posted June 8, 2017 Author Share Posted June 8, 2017 I apologize but I did mean as in lx cue 1 in red and lx cue 2 in green for example. Last time I used the desk the software version was very out of date so I'll do an update next time I'm near it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward- Z88 Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Does Zero88 fade LTP values with the submaster position then? I'd expect the LTP value to set as the sub left zero and remain once you pulled the sub back down. Otherwise a program with moving lights in a certain position would wave around as you fade up the submaster. Sorry Nikki, we're getting a bit off topic! Tim - well yes, they can do either, at least on the higher desks (FLX, Orb, probably Solution). As Shez points out there can be a conundrum with the colour channels as the "blue LED channel" can be viewed as a dimmer channel, or the fixture could be seen as colour channels, triggered (at say 5% of channel) as LTP and then the master dimmer channel behaves as HTP. Likewise with position, you could use your sub fader position as a proportional scaling control on the final pan/tilt position - I remember Jon demoing "sweep blinders up across the audience" with the fader when we did the FLX training. I'd have to admit I'm now at the limit of my knowledge on the desk abilities, since whilst I have lots of LEDs I only have a single MAC250 mover...but I'd expect this functionality is not unusual for the more powerful desks? Kevin Yep as Kevin says on ZerOS consoles (FLX, Orb series, Solution series & LeapFrog series) in that Playback faders can be set up to control an Attribute level, rather than the LTP parameters snapping to their recorded values at their trigger level. Edward Nikki could you re-express your observations and question? The issue I have is the colours aren't setting to the new ones between cues. When you say "between cues" - do you mean something like "In Cue 1 they are red, in Cue 2 they should be blue but they are staying red"? Is this an ltp or htp issue as in do I need to change the desk settings to ltp or the other way round. The rest of the rig is generics Colour attributes would normally be LTP. HTP doesn't really make much sense for colour: HTP refers more to how a number of interacting dimmer instructions would behave. I don't know Jester 48ML, but I'd be surprised if if has a mode that switches between "all LTP" and "all HTP", since I'd expect dimmers to behave HTP and colour/beam/shape/position to be LTP. Hopefully Edward or Jon will be along in a moment to flesh out the details, but a clarification of your question would help regardless. Yes that's right on Jester ML series Intensity parameters follow HTP, whereas Colour, Beam and Position attributes follow LTP.Yes if you could expand a little on the problem, and whether you want to go to black in between your colours etc. Edward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikkicallaghan Posted June 9, 2017 Author Share Posted June 9, 2017 I find it hard to put things into words so bear with me. In the last show I had a state where the pars were set in an orange with the following cue going directly to a blue in them. On running the cue the cans stayed in orange which I could only cure by adding a point cue to take the pars to black and then bring them up in the blue. Hopefully that makes some sort of sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward- Z88 Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 I find it hard to put things into words so bear with me. In the last show I had a state where the pars were set in an orange with the following cue going directly to a blue in them. On running the cue the cans stayed in orange which I could only cure by adding a point cue to take the pars to black and then bring them up in the blue. Hopefully that makes some sort of sense Ok, if you send that show file to Zero88 support and let us know where in the cue list the problem occurred we'll be able to take a look for you...support@zero88.com Edward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikkicallaghan Posted June 9, 2017 Author Share Posted June 9, 2017 1497026512[/url]' post='551439']1497014704[/url]' post='551430']I find it hard to put things into words so bear with me. In the last show I had a state where the pars were set in an orange with the following cue going directly to a blue in them. On running the cue the cans stayed in orange which I could only cure by adding a point cue to take the pars to black and then bring them up in the blue. Hopefully that makes some sort of sense Ok, if you send that show file to Zero88 support and let us know where in the cue list the problem occurred we'll be able to take a look for you...support@zero88.com Edward Unfortunately I cleared the file after the show but I may have the back up I'll try and dig it out. Thank you 1497044383[/url]' post='551445']1497026512[/url]' post='551439']1497014704[/url]' post='551430']I find it hard to put things into words so bear with me. In the last show I had a state where the pars were set in an orange with the following cue going directly to a blue in them. On running the cue the cans stayed in orange which I could only cure by adding a point cue to take the pars to black and then bring them up in the blue. Hopefully that makes some sort of sense Ok, if you send that show file to Zero88 support and let us know where in the cue list the problem occurred we'll be able to take a look for you...support@zero88.com Edward Unfortunately I cleared the file after the show but I may have the back up I'll try and dig it out. Thank you I've just found out the desk is still running software v3.3 and downloaded the latest from the site so I'll do the update and that may well clear the issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Surely before you upgrade the software you need to resolve the issue because the problem is not a common one. Take up their offer to check your show file , then cure what is wrong THEN update, or you have not cured the problem which could be programming or operator? I also NEVER delete things, especially when there have been problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward- Z88 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Hi Nikki, Yes strongly recommend updating to JML4.1 on your Jester, if you do find your show file feel free to send it over though. Edward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikkicallaghan Posted June 10, 2017 Author Share Posted June 10, 2017 It's a shared desk so has to be cleared after a show. Hopefully the show file is still on the memory stick if so I'll get it so I can send it over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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