First Aid

[adam2]

I felt it worth revisiting this old thread to again respectfully urge that public venues review their first aid supplies and firefighting equipment. It would be preferable to go beyond the legal minimum.

 

Substantial re-opening of much of the entertainment industry is within sight. Regrettably such re-opening brings a renewed risk of terrorist attack involving bombs, firearms, bladed weapons and the like. Also an inquiry into the Manchester Arena bombing has suggested that the response by the fire brigade could have been better.

My link

 

 

Detailed discussion of the emergency response is arguably off topic here as it could veer into prohibited p0lit1cal territory. It is however safe to state, that in the event of a major attack, that you/your venue might be "on your own" for a lot lot longer longer than might have been assumed.

A series of attacks could also leave the emergency services overwhelmed.

 

First aid supplies and staff training.

Fire fighting equipment.

Portable lighting equipment.

Communications.

Blankets to cover the injured or deceased.

 

Remember that in some circumstances, that the police may required that staff and customers "shelter in place" for some time, perhaps beyond the 3 hour duration of most emergency lighting.

[emsgeorge]

As someone who used to be in the event industry, and who took the jump into full time 999 nhs ambulance work.........

 

Don't be afraid of touniquets. If someone is peeing blood, and pressure wont stop it enough, pop one on. Better to be alive and lose an arm, than having bled out before arrival.

 

Don't rely on the 999 services to be there quickly. If its a terrorism based attack, or might be one, we are all told to hold off until scene is declared safe by police. See ariana concert to see the timings ..... up to an hour plus.

 

Know where your kits are, know whats in them, and know how to use them. Keep an eye on people opening and using kit so its stocked when you need it.

[the kid]

I felt it worth revisiting this old thread to again respectfully urge that public venues review their first aid supplies and firefighting equipment. It would be preferable to go beyond the legal minimum.

 

Substantial re-opening of much of the entertainment industry is within sight. Regrettably such re-opening brings a renewed risk of terrorist attack involving bombs, firearms, bladed weapons and the like. Also an inquiry into the Manchester Arena bombing has suggested that the response by the fire brigade could have been better.

My link

 

 

Detailed discussion of the emergency response is arguably off topic here as it could veer into prohibited p0lit1cal territory. It is however safe to state, that in the event of a major attack, that you/your venue might be "on your own" for a lot lot longer longer than might have been assumed.

A series of attacks could also leave the emergency services overwhelmed.

 

First aid supplies and staff training.

Fire fighting equipment.

Portable lighting equipment.

Communications.

Blankets to cover the injured or deceased.

 

Remember that in some circumstances, that the police may required that staff and customers "shelter in place" for some time, perhaps beyond the 3 hour duration of most emergency lighting.

 

Adding that im sure some first aid can be advanced or special. I did some extra courses that were first aid. Wound management and such as mentioned above is perfectly possible. Stuff that IMHO should be possible is stuff like celox. Its expensive, and "advanced" of what people know, but I'm fairly sure your local ambulance teams will be more than willing to show how to use correctly.

[Junior8]

Don't forget to search casualties for medical alerts. I have a distinctive wrist strap but some looks just like jewelry. Also give the on/off button of any smartphones a press as this will usually bring up emergency information.

 

 

[emsgeorge]

Don't forget to search casualties for medical alerts. I have a distinctive wrist strap but some looks just like jewelry. Also give the on/off button of any smartphones a press as this will usually bring up emergency information.

 

In a trauma situation we are specifically taught not to bother looking for alert bracelets.

 

In the general ambulance world, we also are taught that alert bracelets are of limited use / ignore them initially. You treat what you see, what can be reversed etc. If you are unco, no bracelet will be looked at, we follow the standard DRABCDE pattern. Does not matter if you are diabetic and wearing a bracelet, I am going to do a BM on you and check your sugar levels anyway - people have been caught out before seeing bracelets and then focussing on that as the cause.

 

And those bracelets which require some sort of device or phone to see the contents ........ not worth it. If you are not well enough to tell me whats wrong with you, I am not wasting time whipping out my phone, looking at a qr code, and deciphering some obscure alert, all the time you are deteriorating. You know what you need ? - your name somewhere and your DOB. That is all I need to do a summary care record print from the nhs system, with all your details, allergies etc on.

 

Some people think they need to let us know all sorts. Pre hospitally, nope. If you cant tell us yourself, you have bigger issues than your past history.

 

In hospital ? - nope, there's the nhs system for that.

[Andrew C]

Doubly so tattoos of your blood type.

I did a first aid session* with the 'Head of Trauma' at the local hospital. He'd served with the marines in Helmand and related how many of them had the same tattoo. Imagine if you will a bunch of pissed up marines in a dodgy tattoo parlor. "What would effendi like?" "Wot he had mate!"

His views on tourniquets etc was very down to earth - "Do whatever you need to do to keep them alive until we arrive. If they die, there's **** all I can do."

 

 

* Part of a 'Bike Safe' day run by Plod - worth it for any bikers reading!

 

[Junior8]

Don't forget to search casualties for medical alerts. I have a distinctive wrist strap but some looks just like jewelry. Also give the on/off button of any smartphones a press as this will usually bring up emergency information.

 

In a trauma situation we are specifically taught not to bother looking for alert bracelets.

 

In the general ambulance world, we also are taught that alert bracelets are of limited use / ignore them initially. You treat what you see, what can be reversed etc. If you are unco, no bracelet will be looked at, we follow the standard DRABCDE pattern. Does not matter if you are diabetic and wearing a bracelet, I am going to do a BM on you and check your sugar levels anyway - people have been caught out before seeing bracelets and then focussing on that as the cause.

 

And those bracelets which require some sort of device or phone to see the contents ........ not worth it. If you are not well enough to tell me whats wrong with you, I am not wasting time whipping out my phone, looking at a qr code, and deciphering some obscure alert, all the time you are deteriorating. You know what you need ? - your name somewhere and your DOB. That is all I need to do a summary care record print from the nhs system, with all your details, allergies etc on.

 

Some people think they need to let us know all sorts. Pre hospitally, nope. If you cant tell us yourself, you have bigger issues than your past history.

 

In hospital ? - nope, there's the nhs system for that.

 

Well all that makes absolute sense I must say (I mean this - it all makes complete sense and backs up what happened when I walked into the car boot lid and needed attention. Not my finest moment...) so it looks like I wasted my money then - on the basis of advice I was given in hospital. Mind you it came from China for £5 post paid so not a lot of money. It simply alerts them to the presence of a device.

 

 

 

[Jivemaster]

The problem with carrying "enough" first aid equipment is that you look like a combat para at all times and barely fit through doors. Probably it's best to look at a few prize items and keep those in a cargo pocket. For skilled techs it's impossible to keep up with developments in and other field completely so keep only what you will be safe using.

 

The one specialist product I'd look at is "Haemostatic dressings or granules" They stop bleeding even if the patient is on asprin or other blood thinners.

 

I found a supply at a marine life raft suppliers of bulk first aid kits. They may be suitable for practise or use and may even come free.

[alistermorton]

I heard (from an ex-army field medic) that haemostatic granules/dressings in the wrong hands can do real harm, but, not being medically trained, I can't really comment.

[adam2]

The problem with carrying "enough" first aid equipment is that you look like a combat para at all times and barely fit through doors. Probably it's best to look at a few prize items and keep those in a cargo pocket. For skilled techs it's impossible to keep up with developments in and other field completely so keep only what you will be safe using.

 

The one specialist product I'd look at is "Haemostatic dressings or granules" They stop bleeding even if the patient is on asprin or other blood thinners.

 

I found a supply at a marine life raft suppliers of bulk first aid kits. They may be suitable for practise or use and may even come free.

 

I was not suggesting that significant amounts of first aid supplies should be carried about ones person, but that stocks held at the venue should be generous. Most of these stocks should be kept in readily available places, box office, management office, back stage etc.

[Jivemaster]

"Old standard" haemostatic dressings had their limits but modern haemostatics are the gold standard for bleeding control. Their major advantage is that they even clot blood that's full of anticoagulants ( from asprin up). (as of my ambulance first aid course 14/16 july 2021).

 

Always consider that the venue that engages you today may actually have NO permanent staff with everyone as casual or sessional.

[alistermorton]

Thanks for clarifying.

[Jivemaster]

https://www.spservices.co.uk/item/CELOX_CeloxHaemostaticAgent-15gSachet-Single_23_70_3497_1.html

 

Is a 15g sachet of Celox haemostatic granules. Ideal for sprinkling on a wound that refuses to clot, must be used with a suitable dressing.

 

It's small enough to carry in a fag packet sized first aid kit.

 

For attending ambulance crew there is 20 kilos to carry from the van to the patient, BUT much of that can wait til the greens arrive IF the blood has stayed inside.

[alistermorton]

That product mentions the problem my friend said the old products had which in the wrong hands could cause more harm than good - the exothermic reaction leading to burns.

[Jivemaster]

Mentions, yes, BUT specifically says "CELOX is not exothermic " However the old granules still worked and kept the blood inside the victim so it was more work for A&E surgeons but the patient was still alive on arrival at hospital. Remember that emergency first aid is there to preserve life until professional care is available.

 

 

That particular pack of Celox is a fine product to keep with two dressings and some adhesive plasters in a pack the size of 20 cigs or a strepsils tin, and kept within reach.

 

 

However the current pandemic may make prevention/protection by mask and gel more significant.