Current Visualisers

[DonkiDonki]

OK, it's that time again.

 

I use Wysiwyg Perform for plots, visuals and pre-viz. I absolutely love it but the membership costs are killer, wiping out pretty much everything that I directly earn from it which makes renewing a real chore.

 

Currently I have let my membership lapse for a while and it is becoming a pain to not have recent fixtures available.

 

 

The competition appears to have been busy with Realizzer, Capture Atlas and LightConverse all looking more and more tempting. (any others? MSD seems to be quiet these days)

Among the things that put me off these other options are the radically different (or so it seems from a quick look) approaches to the CAD manipulation and lighting plot creation. I currently do all my CAD work in Wyg while it seems users of the other packages tend to use an additional CAD such as VectorWorks.

The big attraction is the much lower cost of ownership.

My uses in order are plots, visuals and pre-vis.

Who is using what and what are your observations and opinions please?

[Guest]

Hello,

 

I've used Wyg and LightConverse.

I find Wyg is the easiest to use to build a design in a venue, however in terms of plugging the software into a console to control the rig I find that LightConverse is better.

However that said Wyg R38 being released in February I believe does look like there will be quite a few updates and changes.

 

Edward

[DonkiDonki]

Thanks for your input Ed.

 

R38 does indeed look interesting, if cost was no issue then I wouldn't even consider anything else.

 

A lot of the time I am given a pdf of a CAD plot of the venue/room which I can import and scale as a floor plan and then build all the set and stage elements within Wyg.

Wyg is a fairly basic CAD editor but it is usually plenty for my needs and reasonably easy to get to grips with.

For creating visuals I usually create lightng looks directly in Wyg rather than connect a console.

 

Can the same be done with Light converse or Capture Atlas?

 

I have to say that Capture Atlas looks quite intriguing and it's paperwork/plot capabilities seem to have improved from the earlier versions I had seen.

 

My main concern is that I would need to also get something like Vectorworks to have a similar CAD environment.

 

I just had a quick look at the Atlas demo and the interface was completely alien to me. I think I would need someone experienced with it to show me the best way to translate my Wyg work flow and see if it will do.

[peza2010]

I use capture - mainly for price.

 

However my use is more for proof of concept and showing my client basic stills as instead of full pre-programming visualisations.

 

Im not saying capture is not capable of that, but I do believe there are better options for realism.

[johnhuson]

We use Capture Atlas and yes the interface is completely alien when you first look at it but, when you get used to it I find it makes for a very easy work flow, particularly with a second monitor.

 

When we took the decision to go with Capture it certainly offered the best bang for buck of anything available at the time, but that was a few years ago.

 

In the past I would have said that the paperwork and CAD sides were lacking, it was mainly useful as a visualiser which it did well. With the introduction of Argo and then Atlas there have been vast improvements in these areas. That coupled with improvements in rendering mean it produces renders that would match the competition.

 

It really is good value for money, especially when compared with the running costs of Wyg.

 

Definitely worth trying to find someone localish to talk you through it, after a while the concept of the interface will suddenly click.

[indyld]

Given your priorities I would ignore LC and Realizzer. We run Capture mainly as a viz and also use CAD in the form of AutoCAD and VW. We don't yet rely on Capture to produce plots but the functionality is there.

 

Creating custom geometry of sets etc. is more easily done elsewhere and then imported IMO. In your case, something free or cheap maybe? Unless you can get others to send the 3D geometry rather than a PDF.

 

If console viz is low priority and creating pitch images higher, I'd consider looking at knocking stuff up in Blender or similar.

 

For 2D then again there are cheaper / free options. I realise that multiple softwares and multiple stages aren't ideal even if they seem cheaper to run.

 

WYG does end-to-end reasonably well at each stage of the process. All the others do bits well and Capture is probably the most complete and good value.

[DonkiDonki]

I tend to try and avoid the Vectorworks/photoshop approach to visuals which seems to a favoured route of the more traditional visual creators.

 

All of the people I now do visuals for are contacts made through doing their lighting.

I have always provided visual examples of my lighting designs as it is easy to do in Wysiwyg once you have laid out your plot.

 

It is a more recent development for me to be producing visuals for the initial pitch of jobs, even then I prefer to work within what is achievable in a likely venue/budget rather than produce a fantastic piece of artwork that you know will never be achievable.

 

For the moment I could stick with my copy of Wysiwyg. The only thing that it is letting me down on is the fixture library. I have R28 Perform which is still fine for plots and visuals although I now have to use substitute fixtures a lot. Because of this it is not much use in pe-vis now, which isn't a huge problem as I don't need a lot of pre-vis but it is annoying when I would like to do it.

 

I have used Wyg since R16 when I was fortunate enough to win a major project which made the cost a non-issue.

 

Unfortunately keeping the Perform membership current requires constant annual payments which are pretty significant, too much for me to continue justifying sadly.

 

That said, if I can find an alternative that will let me do the things I do with Wyg now but doesn't have huge ongoing costs just to access new fixtures then I am happy(well, willing at least) to pay a fair amount for that.

 

Most of the current alternatives seem to ask around £2000 for the equivalent of Wyg Perform which I can stomach if that is going to keep me happy for at least 4-5 years without more significant charges.

 

I guess one option is to start with one of the entry level packages, perhaps a base version of Atlas; and see how it works out. (Though I suspect I would end up having to add Vectorworks to that setup)

 

Is there anyone (preferably in the Midlands) who has Atlas that would be willing to show me what it can do?

[indyld]

For real CAD functions you would probably want to add something else alongside Capture too, although for me Vectorworks seems to be getting more unwieldy and bug infested lately. Is also not cheap either.

[DonkiDonki]

I should add that pretty much all of my work is corporate.

Visuals produced for pitches pay quite well which is nice and most of the guys doing this kind of stuff tend to come frome some kind of graphic design background.

 

"Lighting Designs" for me rarely start with a blank canvas as I am usually employed by the kit supplier rather than the production agency. Hence it's more a case of working with a pre-allocated selection of fixtures.

Still some of these can be a fair size and good paperwork and plots are very useful.

 

Very few corporate jobs require pre-vis and even fewer see any need to pay for it. However it can be a very useful tool for me , both for proving ideas and getting some basic programming down before the hectic rig and show days.

 

It seems that Wyg is the only software that allows for all these things to be done within a single application. Unfortunately for me it is priced with large touring event style budgets in mind.

 

I think I might just get the Base version of Atlas to play with for now whilst I still use Wyg for work.

 

With luck I will be able to adapt and eventually drop Wyg altogether.

 

I haven't even looked at the price of Vectorworks but guess it will be pretty hefty.

Assuming I will likely end up wanting some forms of external CAD (it would be useful in it's own right, even with Wyg) would Vectorworks be the obvious choice (it seems to be used by a lot of the graphics guys) or are there others that I should consider?

 

 

One thing I tend to use in Wyg a lot is Extrude. I can import a 2d cad of a room/set or use a pdf copy as a floor plan and use Extrude to create all the walls and simple set elements quickly. Can the same thing be done in Capture?

[Tim gregory]

We use Sketchup to draw the building and set, normally extruding from a floor plan. We then import that directly into Capture Argo and add lights and truss.

 

It does seem that the plotting side of Capture has improved a lot since we started using it.

 

As I dont use Capture regularly (my colleague normally sorts drawings) and it always takes me a while to get my head around it. I find that it seems very feature light when you first use it but then the options are there but not always intuitively.

Once you suss Capture out though it's very capable.

 

Tim

[DonkiDonki]

We use Sketchup to draw the building and set, normally extruding from a floor plan. We then import that directly into Capture Argo and add lights and truss.

 

It does seem that the plotting side of Capture has improved a lot since we started using it.

 

As I dont use Capture regularly (my colleague nomally sorts drawings) and it always takes me a while to get my head around it. I find that it seems very feature light when you first use it but then the options are there but not always intuitively.

Once you suss Capture out though it's very capable.

 

Tim

 

 

 

I hadn't really considered using Sketchup, do you use the free version or the Pro one?

Is it a real alternative to the likes of Vectorworks or Autocad?

 

Do models import fully into capture with curves and textures intact?

(My version of Wyg has crude sketchup compatibility, it imports but usually messes up textures and complex curves. I believe the recent versions of Wyg have got much better however)

[Tim gregory]

When we originally went over to Capture we brought the paid version of Sketchup for the export functionality.

Now Capture can import Sketchup directly which seems to work well. Curves are fine, I am not too sure about textures. I think they are meant to work although I can't say for sure as I've not personally imported a venue on the latest version.

 

Tim

[DonkiDonki]

Probably my usage scenario is a little unusual, wanting cad, plots, visuals and pre-vis from the same package. Especially for an individual working on fairly modest sized events. Guess I have been a little spoiled with having Wyg for so long.

 

If I give up on the pre-vis aspect then the version of Wyg I have will stay usable, I will simply have to continue substituting the newer fixtures. That's no worse than if I went for something like Vectorworks and Spotlight, though with much more basic CAD facilities.

 

I think I may invest in Capture Atlas anyway for now and see how I get on with it.

 

And there are certainly some people producing very impressive models with Sketch up, I will have to have a go at getting up to speed with how that works too. Now I wonder if sketchup can hand let dwg files yet?

[peza2010]

Now I wonder if sketchup can hand let dwg files yet?

 

Sketchup pro can import DWG files.

[DonkiDonki]

Please can someone explain what tools are available for object building in Capture (Atlas in particular)?

 

I presume that it will support basic primitive shapes like rectangles and circles, does it support any level of Boolean tools where objects can be merged or subtracted? (To give a rectangle panel a curved corner or create a hole through a solid shape?).

The tool that I use the most is Extrude, making it fairly easy to create a lot of the model from the usual 2d drawing, does something like this exist in Capture?

 

It would be nice if the small simple sets and stages could be created within Capture without using external software.