BenEdwards Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Again trying to do a lot for not a lot. To keep the price down we are using 2 desks. A Sirius 24 for the generics and a Soundlab for the RGB pars (and some movers we have not put in yet). We are a volunteer run venue and people want to keep a very simple to use desk (hence the Sirius) for the generics. We actually have 24 channels so we can do a lot with it. LEDS are the icing on the cake so not always using them in fine. Most of our stuff is a single performance with very little time for setup. The soundlab looks like a scanmaster MK11 but if you program in the scenes and go from one to another it odes not fade it snaps (regardless of the fadetime slider). It was donated and the guy says he was using it for chases and the fade control does not work between scenes. VERY bad design IMHO. So I am thinking of replacing it, possibly with a scanmaster MK11, or one of the numerous copies. I have used a cheap HK copy and you program in scenes, set the fadetime and you can fade between them. Its all we really need most of the time. When I do lights I use lightfactory, which I really like. The other stuff is for people such as sound techs who want to be able to do basic lighting or the comedy we do (very simple straw wash whole stage generally). Was wondering if there were any not too expensive alternatives to the scanmaster (I.e similar price) or if anyone had anything used they wanted to sell use that would be better. Would go to a great loving home;). Fir me a computer based solution would be perfect (which is why that is what I have) but there is MASSIVE resistance to this at the moment which is insurmountable. Regards,Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadhippy Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 another sirus 24 or 48 slaved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenEdwards Posted October 14, 2016 Author Share Posted October 14, 2016 another sirus 24 or 48 slaved? Not room in the booth. The scanmaster, when scenes set would be a lot easier for people to use anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy Worrall Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 I've run LEDs off a Sirius 24 before. The trick is soft-patching the colour channels together but keeping the brightness channels distinct, as otherwise you quickly run out of channels. Are you OK buying second hand? I sometimes see Fat Frogs go for about £350 on ebay, that'd probably be ideal for you if you wanted to collate everything into one desk. Shove some LED washes on the submasters in the default setup, and anyone who wants to get slightly more advanced has more control available. I just bought an Illusion 500 for £200, which does everything I need… but you'd probably face resistance from people who wanted one fader per channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenEdwards Posted October 14, 2016 Author Share Posted October 14, 2016 posted in error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 Fader per channel is still the only system for the general user of small and moderate size halls where community groups hold meetings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Allen Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 The LSC Atom 24/48 is an example of another old fader based consolle that has very flexible soft patching, that allows you to patch the intensity channel of LED fixtures to a group of individual faders, while soft patching all of the same colour channels onto common faders. This allows six RGB LED's to have their intensity channels patched to channels 1-6, while the colour channels can be patched to ch7 R, ch8 G, ch9 B. I patch the colour channels onto the lower presets, so they are available in scene mode. Then you can have access to individual LED's on the top preset, with scenes, chases and colour palletes on the bottom bank, for busking. I have an LSC Mantra Lite for movers and LED's small shows, but bought an LSC Atom off ebay last year as a small LED desk than can crossfade, as the LED Commander has push buttons for scene and chase selection. This is probably what the Sirius allows you to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenEdwards Posted October 16, 2016 Author Share Posted October 16, 2016 OK, should give a little more info. Naot having a modern desk (i.e. not a 1-2-1 mapping for faders to channels) for the LEDS is fine and having 2 desks, one for LEDS and one for generics is also fine. The ability to easily program up presets for LEDS is very useful as we tend to use the first bank of presets for generic stuff (red wash, blue wash, green wash, yellow wash, purple wash, magenta wash, cyan wash and dark). The second bank of presets (called scenes on the scanmaster) can be used for show specific stuff. Also the ability to run everything off a single DMX chain is needed. For general day to day stuff we use the two desks and for more complex shows I rewire a bit to do everything is on one chain. The way it works is the first 2 fixture buttons on the scanmaster desk are not mapped and the LEDS are mapped to 33, 49, 81, 97... This means that when everything is on one chain I can control each LED independently and they do not overlap with the generics (1-24). The LEDS are actually 8 channel so that's 48 channels. I know we could use a 48 channel desk in wide but we also have a couple of movers we want to add. with this many LEDS a desk for LEDS is a bit cumberson and we dont have the space in the booth for one anyway. The scanmaster MK II works quite well for this. The main problem is it does not have a master intensity fader. Its actually soundlab desk we have, I say scanmaster because the soundlab one is very obscure and the soundmaster is very similar except for some weird reason the fade time slider does not do anything when going from one scene to another. It also has an override button that lets you change values without going into program mode. So I guess I am asking for a desk that allows scenes/presets to be programmed and has a fadetime slider, preferably a master intensity slider and a XY joystick. And is not too big. It may be the scanmaster MK II is the best option. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Remo Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 So I guess I am asking for a desk that allows scenes/presets to be programmed and has a fadetime slider, preferably a master intensity slider and a XY joystick. And is not too big. Although discontinued it sounds a bit like a Martin Freakie might fit the bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmp Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Get a used Pulsar Masterpiece - I know some people don't like it as it seems complicated to program but it has all the features you desire. The DMX patch system is in case of LED fixtures a great feature since as you really need only RGB and Strobe and not the other 4 channels. So you only need to map these 4 to the channels of the pulsar deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Get a used Pulsar Masterpiece - I know some people don't like it as it seems complicated to program but it has all the features you desire. You've got to be kidding, he wants this to be easy to use for random venue users. If there is a more intimidating looking desk out there I'm not sure what it is... and I have spent too much of my life visiting venues to get their masterpieces working again after someone has "accidentally" reprogrammed them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmp Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 You've got to be kidding, he wants this to be easy to use for random venue users http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif ok - point taken for a random user this might not be the perfect deck - even if you lock it down so you can't reprogram it - feature wise it sure can to the job http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenEdwards Posted October 17, 2016 Author Share Posted October 17, 2016 So I guess I am asking for a desk that allows scenes/presets to be programmed and has a fadetime slider, preferably a master intensity slider and a XY joystick. And is not too big. Although discontinued it sounds a bit like a Martin Freakie might fit the bill May be a goer. how do you retrieve presets. You've got to be kidding, he wants this to be easy to use for random venue users http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif ok - point taken for a random user this might not be the perfect deck - even if you lock it down so you can't reprogram it - feature wise it sure can to the job http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif Not too bothered if is is complex to program, I will set presets. If it has a master intensity and lots of preset buttons may be a goer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmp Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Not too bothered if is is complex to program, I will set presets. If it has a master intensity and lots of preset buttons may be a goer. There are a few versions out there - a Masterpiece 48, 96, 108 and 216. The 48 has a smaller foot print as the others. The number (48,96,108,216) is the number of (PMX) channels - this is NOT the same as the number of DMX channels if you are in DMX Patch mode. A single PMX channel can map to multiple DMX channels - e.g. 1 PMX channel could map to all Red channels of a number of RGB fixtures - Another nice thing about this mode is that you can put DMX channels to any fix level e.g. in case of RGB fixture you could set all the dimmer channels to 100% without wasting a channel on the deck. The following is for a MP108 (108 PMX channels which can be mapped to 256 DMX channels) It has a grand master fader as well as fade in/out times for all scenes. To program a scene (preset) you simply use the 18 fader + 6 output select keys (6*18 = 108 total channels) an then press the SOTS (save output to scene) key and use one of the 12 scene banks and one of the 18 scene keys. In other words the deck has a total of 12*18=216 scenes you store each with it's own fade times. The additional 54 scene chases, 48 environments and 6 environment chases can also be used as static presets if needed. You can lock any single fader and key on this deck to prohibit users from accidentally pressing it - So, once programmed you can just enable the 12 scene bank keys + 18 scene keys as well as the grand master fader- this way the only thing you can do is turn on/off scenes. I should mention the 18 keys can be configured to different modes e.g. flash/latch/solo or swap which can be usefulll for RGB fixtures. For instance you can set 6 keys to red,green,blue,cyan,magenta and yellow - and configure it so that only one of the 6 is turned on. Anyway too much info I guess ... http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif Keep in mind that this deck has touch keys instead of mechanical keys. Also, that with this deck it's love or hate - I personally love it even though the user manual sucks. btw/ Pulsar still sells parts, does repairs as well as provides free SW updates to the last firmware which was 3.02. You see them a lot on ebay but some of them are really beaten down. I hope this helps and others don't tear me in pieces now http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philis Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Unless you really hate yourself Don't go for a Masterpiece (again just my opinion)but at a trade show a few years ago when Pular had a masterpiece on display on the stand, under the counter they had an MA ultralite to control the led fixtures on the stand It says something when they don't even want to use it Sorry PMP :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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