loudwill Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Hi Guys, Bit of a random question. I see lots of different opinions regarding the Presonus 16/24/32.4.2 mixers. Many engineers are saying they hate them and to stay away, others swear by them. Can anyone shine a light on why some people hate these consoles so much? Just curious ;) Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.elsbury Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Well as a starter for ten, the gains are not recallable so if you have a festival patch with shared channels, it's almost unworkable. Just not a very user friendly desk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Their initial live digital desks not only lacked recallable head amps but also lacked flying faders. Getting back to where a fader "ought" to be was done by moving it until a visual indication showed you were at the same level. In some ways that was not completely unusual - the Yamaha PM5D (very popular as a digital live board for several years) did not have recallable head amps unless you bought the RH version. The benefit of the Presonus desks was that the user interface was so close to the analogue model, that it gained considerable popularity - often I understand - amongst American 'Mom and Pop' churches where they wanted a new desk but were scared of the 'full digital' offerings (which probably did have pretty poor interfaces!). Presonus persisted with this approach and when the X32 hit the streets they ran a fairly barbed comparison with the X32 which seemed to show how the Presonus triumphed in every way (but in reality most agreed that the Behringer won pretty comprehensively). I don't think the later AI models have added either function. So, it's a capable, lower cost desk that has a loyal following, is easy to use but is probably considered outclassed by most other desks around that pricepoint... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 I have an original 16.4.2 and I use other presonus studio gear too. My point of view is that they provide a decent gear, no big drawbacks and good sound. but their real positive point is integration. if you use capture or Studio One, recording with these works nicely. They tend to be quite resistant too as mine is still working (stats base don one sample, I know, but it is the sample I care for :) ). Good thing is also that they kept on innovating and new models are coming quite often so older models tend to be cheaper on the market and you can get a full 16.4.2 for quite cheap (or you can cry for the loss of value of the one you bought few years ago). Overall I'm quite positive about these desks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 When they first came out, they were a affordable, usable and approachable gateway to digital mixing for many. The lack of moving faders and recallable gains was forgiveable for the cost at the time. One of their main competitors at the time was the 01V - flying faders, still no recallable gains, but much steeper learning curve. There were some questions over their resilience. Move on to the current X32 era, with Behringer and many others producing fantastic desks around the same price, and it's very hard to see why you'd buy a Presonus desk. About their only propositions that make sense at the moment are their control surface (which finally introduces moving faders) plus separate I/O. There's also the option to link two 32 channel desks into a 64 channel behemoth, but at that price/scale, I'd be looking for a more capable desk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPAman Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Also, IIRC, they have (or at least had) no way of getting tablet remote control without also having a computer plugged in to act as the interface. Not a great problem in a studio, but adds to what you've got to take with you and se up for live. I consider them more of a studio desk that can be used for live events, while most of the others in that sort of price range are the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_cooper Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Their initial live digital desks not only lacked recallable head amps but also lacked flying faders. Getting back to where a fader "ought" to be was done by moving it until a visual indication showed you were at the same level. In some ways that was not completely unusual - the Yamaha PM5D (very popular as a digital live board for several years) did not have recallable head amps unless you bought the RH version. The benefit of the Presonus desks was that the user interface was so close to the analogue model, that it gained considerable popularity - often I understand - amongst American 'Mom and Pop' churches where they wanted a new desk but were scared of the 'full digital' offerings (which probably did have pretty poor interfaces!). You can put me firmly in the dislike camp on these. I really never understood the argument their UI was similar to analogue. Something about the horizontal channel strip with vertical bar graph indicators always just felt wrong to me. I only used them a few times, but most desks I can develop some kind of muscle memory for fairly quickly, not the studio lives. I vaguely also remember issues where problems with the firewire connection could cause the mixer to stop passing audio. The lack of motorised faders, even at the time, was a deal killer for me. The 01V was more functional, and I personally found it more comfortable to operate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S&L Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 A lot of the pro Americans hate them with good reason - apparently notorious for freezing and crashing mid show. - or as they call it ' the desk took a dump' they get a very enthusiastic amateur recording community following. and in the early x32 days I remember that community being pretty viscous in it's dislike for the x32 products. subsequently, as stated above, the x32 enjoyed a ground swell of support that left the presonus looking as forlorn as those old cheap analogue consoles left in the cupboard by us all. I don't think they ever had the foothold in europe that they did in the states once you got beyond the bedroom studio. they have come back lately with a couple of innovations - their 24 channel mixers now gang up together to link buses etc and make a master/slave 48 channel console - but I'm not sure that has much of a market given that most people with 48 channel requirements are going to want recallable pre amps, moving faders and reliability and at that count have the money to spend on something decent. but their RM32 rack mixer is getting positive comments from those american professionals who wrinkled their nose at the older mixers. the yanks I know seem happy enough with it. but the price is similar to an x32 rack and s16 stage box, it's the same price as the mackie 32 channel box (though I'm told the mackie doesn't sound as good) and it's a little more for an allen heath surfaceless set up. To be honest I think allen heath and behringer have this market sewn up at the moment. and neither of those a prone to crashing if you follow the advice and manuals. I can think of any number of each manufacturer that have been running for years without issue now. and I think that's the biggest problem - outdated, perhaps unreliable and no price difference between them and the two market leaders. unless they do something to break out of the box they will now forever be a marmite product - the faithful in small set ups who have used them and love them and the rest who don't love them particularly and tend to see them as not up to scratch with the competition on price or features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 they have come back lately with a couple of innovations - their 24 channel mixers now gang up together to link buses etc and make a master/slave 48 channel console - but I'm not sure that has much of a market given that most people with 48 channel requirements are going to want recallable pre amps, moving faders and reliability and at that count have the money to spend on something decent. At around GBP 1,700 for a SL24.4.2, that's GBP 3,400 for their master/slave 48 channel console. Can't see *anyone* with 48 channel requirements going for that, unless they're rather terminally simple... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S&L Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 they have come back lately with a couple of innovations - their 24 channel mixers now gang up together to link buses etc and make a master/slave 48 channel console - but I'm not sure that has much of a market given that most people with 48 channel requirements are going to want recallable pre amps, moving faders and reliability and at that count have the money to spend on something decent. At around GBP 1,700 for a SL24.4.2, that's GBP 3,400 for their master/slave 48 channel console. Can't see *anyone* with 48 channel requirements going for that, unless they're rather terminally simple... oh I agree entirely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audixmicguy Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 If you were a Mackie D8B guy the "fat channel" on the Presonus looked very familiar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S&L Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 interesting we should be having this conversation now: http://www.presonus.com/products/StudioLive-32 a new 32 channel mixer, moving faders, recallable pre amps and a spec similar to the x32. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cedd Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 I stayed out of this as I'd never used a Presonus desk before, but that changed yesterday when I had to do sound for a friend's brother's funeral. Studio live desk installed in the church with a few radio mics and a laptop input. I wouldn't say this was "hard core" mixing by any stretch, but it was still useful to do and I thought I'd report back. Firstly I can't comment at all on sound quality - why do churches buy a desk like this and then stick it through a set of 4 100V column speakers that sound like a bee in a tin? User-wise, I found my way around it ok after a bit of a wake up call to the fact that I didn't have a channel display as such. I saw it very much as an analogue desk with digital behind it - still felt very analogue. Certainly not the easiest desk in its' class to walk up and use, but it wasn't completely alien. 2 things did get me a bit peeved - it always came up with the meters and associated knobs set to effects mode. Hitting the "inputs" button got them back to being meters, but if I then went in to say the display page of an aux (so bringing them up as aux send levels) and then hit the display button again, it'd revert back to effects mode rather than going back to what I'd told them to be. One other thing - I had a laptop connected to inputs 1 and 2 (their way of doing things, not mine) then when levels got high in the room, the meters of these channels would show maybe one led of signal present. The laptop audio was muted at the time and I even tried unplugging the lead from it. There was nothing funky happening in the routing. I could only surmise that it was crosstalk from the other channels, which was a bit concerning. Didn't hate it, but I wouldn't run out and get one when there are the baby Allen & Heath, Yamaha, Behringer and Roland options out there - all with nice displays. My view (and it's only a personal opinion) is that if you go digital then you may as well go properly digital rather than trying to replicate the analogue user environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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