Roderick Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 Anybody with actual information why this marquee at the Orkney county show left its' destined position?Only want to know what actually happened so we can learn. BBC reporting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 Have you got a copy of this, Roderick? Check out section 8, page 53 for the wind map. The Beeb said 47 mph gusts probably because that makes it a Force 9, Strong/Severe gale where; "Some branches break off trees, and some small trees blow over. Construction/temporary signs and barricades blow over." There are no trees up there. There are no marquee hire companies up there. Join the dots? The Monday before this a 4,000 tonne semi-submersible oil drilling rig was blown off course during a tow and is now aground on the Isle of Lewis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImagineerTom Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 47mph winds are comfortably over the limits at which the site should have been closed and extra wind-protection actions taken because all sorts of things would have been moving and damaged at that speed. A frame marquees also have poor wind loading with even the best ones only held down by a couple of stakes and they are usually the first corner that's cut by installers so it's not at all surprising they flip so often. In short - bad design, questionable installation and lack of basic safety protocols on site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 I don't know what the soil is like there but I'd want proof that stakes could be driven in a metre! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior8 Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 They were lucky - indeed as lucky Boomtown http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-37063056 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew C Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Saw the plume from that at work. My first thoughts weren't of an accident... so glad I was wrong! Stubble field, hot catalytic converter... So easy. Other theories involve discarded ciggie. ETA - Seems smoking is really bad for your car. Fire Brigade blaming cig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart91 Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 47mph winds are comfortably over the limits at which the site should have been closed and extra wind-protection actions taken because all sorts of things would have been moving and damaged at that speed. A frame marquees also have poor wind loading with even the best ones only held down by a couple of stakes and they are usually the first corner that's cut by installers so it's not at all surprising they flip so often. Just out of curiosity, what would be required if you need a temporary structure that's capable of withstanding that kind of windspeed? I'm guessing that no matter how well you peg down (or ballast) a clearspan, there will come a point where the wind tears the structure apart, rather than uprooting it in one piece? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 ... what would be required if you need a temporary structure that's capable of withstanding that kind of windspeed?... In that location I'd probably get Organisation Todt to build it, the usual meaning of "robust" might not survive long in that terrain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 What is particularly scary in the video is that people appear to be running after the marquee trying to stop it - as someone above says the wind management plan should have just said to run away once the wind got that fast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 What is particularly scary in the video is that people appear to be running after the marquee trying to stop it - as someone above says the wind management plan should have just said to run away once the wind got that fast! This is human nature though, people often in a crisis situation do not stop to think through the possible outcomes... i.e. what are the chances of 80kg me stopping a 100ft marquee full of wind without getting hurt. I am sure we've all felt the same impulse to try and help in situations like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior8 Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Since I've been covering the outdoor trade (sixteen years now) I've become convinced that nobody really realises what the wind can do until they have seen/experienced it for themselves. Fortunately I had an early lesson on a pretty calm day albeit by the sea (Ocean Village Southampton) when a sudden squally gust from nowhere got under the sheets on a sixty foot box iron market stall loaded with fashiosn and lifted it clear of the ground and set it down about three inches to the right.(He had no weights on but trust me neither would most on that day.). These days the Market Trade looks askance at Force 5 or over - given the moderate performance of many modern pop-ups. Looking at the OP video if this weather was forecast, and I'll bet it isn't unusual in Orkney, nobody had any business setting up anything - they should spend the next few days thanking whatever guardian angel was looking out for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 I'm guessing that on a bad day the wind on Orkney would cause the tractors to flutter and you wouldn't want to run the fork lift to the top of the mast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 To go back to why this might have happened there might be a clue on the Orkney County Show website. Our marquees are available for hire throughout the rest of the year and are charged at £5 per square metre which includes Society Staff to erect.That suggests to me that they have bought their own marquees and are amateurs who try to cover some costs because £5 a square metre is peanuts. It certainly isn't a professional enterprise and almost certainly won't have the expertise, skills and experience to mess around with tents like this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImagineerTom Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 A-frame shed marquees are designed to be cheap to operate (ie light and quick to put up, break down to pieces that fit in common vehicle sizes etc) and absolutely NOT designed for strength or durability. I'm not sure it would ever be wise to deliberately put up a TDS in a location with sustained winds at that level. If you were though then a tensile structure has the best chance. The new "bigtops" we had made this year have over 100 stakes and 8 ground anchors holding them down and are rated to remain up in 80mph wind conditions because they've been designed to have the lowest possible wind resistance. However they take a lot more manpower and tools to put up than a shed marquee does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandall Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 There are no trees up there.Not strictly true - a few do lurk in hollows & behind walls built to protect them, but I don't recall seeing any on open ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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