Flying Cloths in Arena

[lamp207]

Afternoon All,

 

Client of mine is going into an Arena for a panto. They want clothes to be used and to preferably fly but do not want to track them. What other options are available other than building a mother grid and installing a fly tower using automation.

 

Cheers guys.

 

S

[ImagineerTom]

We do "flytowers" in the tents occasionally - a mixture of mothergrid & tumble-down rigging of cloths when the height clearance is tight. It's quite a specialist field and you're not going to get anything more than the vaguest answer (like mine is) to casual enquiries as the ultimate answer and method depends very specifically on what you're flying and how it needs to be used in the show. Also because of the weights (and risk of dropping said heavy things on people's heads) you're really having to get some specialist, expert advice in on this sort of project because the only way to give meaningful answers is by doing lots of sums and modelling.

 

In the past it's been considerably cheaper to modify the set and design a proper 3D wipe system (done properly using french flats, cloths and some lateral thinking engineering it gives a great effect) but this again requires proper planning and some expert input to take the production beyond the usual "3 tracks midstage, 3 upstage, forget half the set and hope the talent makes a loud noise when you're doing the wipes" method that most panto's default to.

 

 

[Shez]

There've been a couple of touring shows through one of my venues recently relevant to this - one used a couple of rollers, ~40' long and appeared to be carbon fibre; the other used several truss-mounted counterweight sets. There are many options here - talk to your preferred rigging company.

[Brian]

Do you have enough height?

 

I know we think of arenas as 'big' but there are plenty that aren't all that tall. For flying cloths you'd normally be looking at a stage to fully-out height of 3 times proc height.

[mikienorth]

Investigate projecting your scenery, or using a video wall? Might be a sideways answer, but it might be cheaper to create some cool content that replaces your cloths and have dynamic transisitions? If you go for LED wall you then have a whole new creative lighting element to play with too. Don't just think "Omigod, how are we going to build a fly tower in an arena" think, "OK, flying isn't there, building that option is pricy, what else can we do for similar money, and can we innovate?"

[kerry davies]

I can never really understand this type of question. Why choose a non-theatre venue then attempt to turn it into a theatre experience? Why not use site-specific principles to utilise the qualities that a theatre does not have?

 

Tom and Brian are right, a purpose built fly tower may not be possible and even if it were it will require full engineering plans to achieve. Mikie's approach is more applicable though I would go back another step and ask what it is about an arena space that I can't get from a theatre. What attributes can I use which I cannot in a theatre.

Start thinking about how they produced opera at Earls Court or Gridgirl's floating opera or Bregenz which allows scope that theatres cannot.

[ontoprigger]

If you really needed backdrops you can always use kabuki drops, first release lets the cloth in second drops it to the floor where it's pulled off stage, that works if you don't need the same cloth fo multiple scene's. You would just need a series of trusses to raise and lower for the reset each day and a good kabuki system so the right cloth is lowered at the right time.

[ImagineerTom]

That doesn't work for painted scenic back-cloths and even if you did modify them so that it would the wear and tear would completely destroy them across a typical panto run of 30 performances.

[trussmonkey]

I hope you have a long load in time as this will be complex !! You could do it with a clever set of tab tracks. The track starts onstage and curves round to finish upstage behind the back drop. This only works if you can get your stage far enough downstage into the arena to allow for the tracks behind the back cloth. It will kill wing space not to mention restrict the amount of expensive seats the venue can sell.

 

All depends on how many cloths we are talking about and the size of the arena. As it has been mentioned before not all arenas are made the same. The O2 London is taller than the Cardiff International Arena but the CIA is a lot wider than the O2. Goes for 100 % of the arena in the UK.

[ontoprigger]

That doesn't work for painted scenic back-cloths and even if you did modify them so that it would the wear and tear would completely destroy them across a typical panto run of 30 performances.

 

it will depend on the type of painted cloth you use, yes if you want to use an old stock cloth it will be a problem. A lot of the back drops today are digitally printed and they work fine with a kabuki system even over a long run if looked after.

[ImagineerTom]

Except we're talking here about a panto so 95% of all cloths in current panto hire stocks (including those by the big companies that are the only ones capable of putting on arena sized pantos) are "old school" painted canvas and definitely not digiprint. Also panto backcloths tend to have a lot of applied detail (leaves, glitter etc) which definitely wouldn't survive being dropped and rolled twice daily.

[paulears]

And pantomimes frequently reuse cloths, the same scene, needs the same cloth. I can't imagine a panto with dropping cloths, and where on earth would you put them, and of course have the people to do it, and quietly. Dragging a typical panto cloth off sideways is a crazy idea. Finding a clear stage to fold them will be a pain, plus the damn things crease so easily that all the booms, so popular in throwing cross light will show all the creases.

 

The only thought would be reducing the height, and then flying normally. Plenty of panto cloths are reduced height for smaller venues, is this a possibility, and then fly them properly from a mother grid?

[ontoprigger]

Except we're talking here about a panto so 95% of all cloths in current panto hire stocks (including those by the big companies that are the only ones capable of putting on arena sized pantos) are "old school" painted canvas and definitely not digiprint. Also panto backcloths tend to have a lot of applied detail (leaves, glitter etc) which definitely wouldn't survive being dropped and rolled twice daily.

 

I have worked for those big panto companies, (including the two biggest at the moment) and they normally build one new show a year, so it would not be beyond them to print something specific if needed. They may not all be as "old School" as you think, they are already using printed backdrops and have been for the last 5-6 years.

 

I also have a client who used a printed backdrop with a kabuki and it worked fine for the six weeks they used it, you just need to plan things properly, they dropped it pulled it off stage into a hamper and hung it up at the end of the show to let any big creases drop out, then reset it the next day. As the fabric used is not as heavy as a painted cloth its smaller and easier to handle, theirs was also back light so it didn't show the smaller creases, many thought it looked like a projection.

 

But if this is one of the big panto producers I would be surprised if they had not already got this covered especially as they don't only do panto, they are doing touring shows and arena shows the rest of the year so it would not be a surprise they cant fly anything.

 

I would be asking whats the reason they are doing the show in an arena if they want the theater stage look, the increased size and style of seating layout of an arena requires a different design to the show, that's not usually suited to lots of cloths and flat set pieces it needs to be much more in the round or at least a thrust stage otherwise the increased seating capacity an arena gives will not see the full show.