Complete LED theatrical lighting setup?

[Jehan]

Hi Lighting Gurus out there.

 

I am putting together a black box theatre in a hall that is 26 feet wide by 65 feet long. With cielings at 15 feet. We've got 3 trusses suspended at equidistantly over the 65 feet (they all run the breadth of the space.

 

I want to put a permanent lighting inventory in the space, rather than the rentals (which is how things here in India work mostly). The cost of rental, plus electricity in the space, etc makes the running cost of each show quite high (for amateru theatre groups).

 

We want to make running a show affordable to them by significantly reducing the lighting costs. We have the space for 9 years:

 

I am thinking of investing in 20-26 LED lights to use for the space (area of performance will always be roughly 1/3rd of the entire floor space, audience in the rest).

 

I learned to light using Lekos, Sourc 4's , PC's, Fresnels , Par Cans and Cyc Strips. Back in the 1990s.

 

While I can think of LED Pars to replace Par Cans (Cyc Strips also)

What do I look at for:

1) Fresnels with barn doors.

2) Profiles, Source 4s. (Beams, clean spreads, gobo designs etc).

 

Also, what would you recommend would be a good board to get with this system that allows working in the old manual A/B cross fade system , AS WELL as programming cues. (many groups don't know how to do this yet here..).

 

I know that Painsploughs - Roundabout theatre ( a flat pack pop-up theatre in the UK) is entirely LED run.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Jehan

[Modge]

2) Profiles, Source 4s. (Beams, clean spreads, gobo designs etc).

 

If budget permits (and I'm not sure it would at an amateur venue in the UK) then you can replace source 4 with … LED source4s: https://www.etcconnect.com/Products/Lighting-Fixtures/Source-Four-LEDs/

 

They cost a fortune, but with the right adaptors they can be cyc lights as well. Otherwise eLumen8 are significantly cheaper: http://prolight.co.uk/PRO/item.php?id=510396

[timsabre]

Elation also do some reasonable LED fresnels and an LED source 4 profile lookalike at the cheaper end of the price range

 

http://elationlighting.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ItemNumber=2031&MainId=1&Category=41

 

http://elationlighting.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ItemNumber=1830

 

 

Regarding control, there are plenty of 2-preset DMX desks available - there's a desk called "scene setter 48" under various brand names that might do you, though it's a bit clunky to use the programming functions.

[Jivemaster]

Kit is available to use LED in a venue. The Purchase vs Hire argument usually rotates about the number of weeks of use that the kit gets in a year. Hire things that you use rarely but buy things that you use often.

[BenEdwards]

Kit is available to use LED in a venue. The Purchase vs Hire argument usually rotates about the number of weeks of use that the kit gets in a year. Hire things that you use rarely but buy things that you use often.

 

You may want to look at the Martin Rush Zoom RGBW parcan, http://www.martin.com/en-us/product-details/rush-par-2-rgbw-zoom

 

Ben

[alistermorton]

As Timsabre has also alluded, look at IP rated fixtures to get away from cooling fans. They will likely be more expensive than fan cooled fixtures, but the fan noise of a whole rig might well be intrusive. If you're looking at fan cooled fixtures, try to get a couple of samples to try in your venue to see how they sound before committing.

[Don Allen]

See if you can find a local supplier of flat diecast LED parcan's like these P25 series as they do not have fans.

[Jehan]

See if you can find a local supplier of flat diecast LED parcan's like these P25 series as they do not have fans.

 

Those I've seen in the market...and if they're the majority then I'm set.

 

Only profiles and Fresnel replacements will have to be fan cooled I think... Also..thanks for the pointers found an elation dealer here in Mumbai. Excited!!

 

Now let's see the quote.

 

What is IP?

[Don Allen]

IP Protection Numbers IP65 is waterproof, if it is fully sealed, then it cannot have a fan, but is heavier and more expensive, as a general rule.

[chelgrian]

Also, what would you recommend would be a good board to get with this system that allows working in the old manual A/B cross fade system , AS WELL as programming cues. (many groups don't know how to do this yet here..).

 

You don't mention if you want colour mixing LED fixtures or white LED fixtures which you'll need to gel.

 

Part of the attraction of colour mixing is that you don't need gel and not having gel means it doesn't absorb light so the fixture can put out less light overall to get the same effect on stage.

 

However colour mixing fixtures will take several DMX channels, on higher end fixtures you'll have 2 per colour plus 2 for the intensity lower end stuff probably only one per controllable item. In order to control these you'll need a desk which can be programmed to know about the specific fixtures such that you can setup some likely colours and then assign the intensity to a fader for the users who can't deal with pre-programming a cue stack. However the full power of being able to change colours via desk control is available to those that can deal with it.

 

If you are going down the colour mixing route think you can probably do what you need with something like a Zero88 Jester ML sized according the the number of channels you need to control the number of fixtures you want to buy however I'm not a lampie so will stand to be corrected.

[timsabre]

You don't mention if you want colour mixing LED fixtures or white LED fixtures which you'll need to gel.

Part of the attraction of colour mixing is that you don't need gel and not having gel means it doesn't absorb light so the fixture can put out less light overall to get the same effect on stage.

 

This is a good point, but while white theatrical LED fixtures are becoming affordable, colour mixing fresnels/profiles are still very expensive for what they are. Unless you have a specific need for them (access issues etc) it's hard to justify the extra cost. Also the cheaper ones often suffer from unevenly mixed colour in the beam.

[Jehan]

You don't mention if you want colour mixing LED fixtures or white LED fixtures which you'll need to gel.

Part of the attraction of colour mixing is that you don't need gel and not having gel means it doesn't absorb light so the fixture can put out less light overall to get the same effect on stage.

 

This is a good point, but while white theatrical LED fixtures are becoming affordable, colour mixing fresnels/profiles are still very expensive for what they are. Unless you have a specific need for them (access issues etc) it's hard to justify the extra cost. Also the cheaper ones often suffer from unevenly mixed colour in the beam.

 

I think I like the idea of gels being used. These fixtures come with gel frames and holders I aasume.

 

Question...is there a specific kind of white light output that one should be mindful of? Is it like tungsten yellow, or HMI white in these new single color LEDs?

[timsabre]

Question...is there a specific kind of white light output that one should be mindful of? Is it like tungsten yellow, or HMI white in these new single color LEDs?

 

Well. This is a hard question. Nearly all the current "theatrical" type fixtures have what they call a "warm white" output, which looks similar to tungsten when you shine it on a white object. You will find the odd "cool white" which is more like HMI but these are not so useful for theatre.

 

However, once you start putting gels in or shining it on coloured objects, then it does not behave the same as tungsten because parts of the colour spectrum are missing from the light... this picture shows a typical warm white LED spectrum. A tungsten lamp is a lot flatter across the range of colours.

 

http://aquadecessentials.yolasite.com/resources/150cm%20LED%20Tube%20Warm%20white%2022W.JPG

 

Lee filters do a special range of gels designed for LED which take account of this output, but even then you can get unexpected results when you light certain colours of object, it can really change the appearance of something by emphasising some colours and muting others.

[SteveETC]

This is a good point, but while white theatrical LED fixtures are becoming affordable, colour mixing fresnels/profiles are still very expensive for what they are. Unless you have a specific need for them (access issues etc) it's hard to justify the extra cost.

 

I can't talk for other manufacturers but the ETC Series 2 colour mixing Lustr fixtures have the same list price as the Tungsten and Daylight variants. There is a trade off in a slightly lower lumen count on the colour mixing but this is very quickly negated once you start putting gels in front of the others.

 

 

 

 

 

[timsabre]

This is a good point, but while white theatrical LED fixtures are becoming affordable, colour mixing fresnels/profiles are still very expensive for what they are. Unless you have a specific need for them (access issues etc) it's hard to justify the extra cost.

I can't talk for other manufacturers but the ETC Series 2 colour mixing Lustr fixtures have the same list price as the Tungsten and Daylight variants. There is a trade off in a slightly lower lumen count on the colour mixing but this is very quickly negated once you start putting gels in front of the others.

 

Actually you're right and I am out of date, even the more "budget" Elation white / colourmix fixtures I previously mentioned are not that different in price - white lists at $1399 and colour at $1599

However for those fixtures the light output of the colourmix version set to white is quite a lot less than the white fixture, 4200 lumens vs 6700 lumens