Schools Will Rock You

[JBeatMF]

Hi

 

I'm working at a school in Solihull, Birmingham and we are doing the queen musical 'schools will rock you' in December 2015 but from various searches on here can't find anything with regards to set, although what I have found is great but at a very long distance away so I'm wondering if there is anyone local to west midlands area who has done it recently and would be interested in hiring out the set? We do have a budget of course but are crippled due to distance to collect and return. If anyone has any contacts/productions companies/schools etc that they'd like to pass on for me to contact I will be most grateful.

 

thankyou for taking the time to read this,

 

make love not war!

 

J

[cedd]

Rock You can be as complicated or simple as you like. Our last set for it was a set of steeldeck risers across the back with steps down from them. We then had a freestanding truss over the stage, lit with LED pars and with a few movers on it. That was kind of it! The rest of it was props or small set pieces. It's the kind of show where you could get away with some projection for bits and pieces like Tottenham Court Road. The West End production didn't have much at all - it wasn't a very set-heavy show at all.

The thing that seems to trip lots of people up is the motorbike.

 

 

 

[Ynot]

Not local, so may not satisfy your needs, but Proscenium have (or at least had) a full stage set (incl motorbike) for WWRY...

 

You will either have to bite the bullet and pay for transporting the set from suppliers, or start from scratch and design/build your own.

[ninjadingle]

We also did the stepped staging route with flown truss, LED pars and movers, a few flightcases on stage and projection. We ended up using a mini-moto for our motorbike - got a few laughs!

[paulears]

The thing with all these school shows is that there really is no need to spend lots of money, yet people do - and the audience will whoop and clap even if the acting is dire, the costumes tatty and the lighting awful. The trouble is everyone wants to have professional standards of technical and set, when the artistic component is usually pretty, er, variable. You might have a fabulous few in the lead roles, but the others mess it up.

 

Part of the fun is building the sets from whatever is available. Hiring it all in shows up too many warts.

[propsman]

The thing with all these school shows is that there really is no need to spend lots of money, yet people do - and the audience will whoop and clap even if the acting is dire, the costumes tatty and the lighting awful. The trouble is everyone wants to have professional standards of technical and set, when the artistic component is usually pretty, er, variable. You might have a fabulous few in the lead roles, but the others mess it up.

 

Part of the fun is building the sets from whatever is available. Hiring it all in shows up too many warts.

 

 

I can't agree entirely with the above statement... there is a bit of generalising I feel, yes some school productions are pretty awful (evidence is all over youtube) and the need to spend lots of money does not necessarily make a show better, but there are others which are really good, pretty much like so called professional shows, there are ones which are good bad and some ugly.

 

As I have no power over the selection of cast and at times wonder how some even get work do not adopt an attitude that, because they let the production down that the set costume lighting sound props AV and any other technical elements a production requires should be of a 'that will do' style.

 

It is important to achieve the highest possible production standards/values at all times no matter what the show is or who is in it within budget and time. The important people here are the audience, either because they have paid money to see something or even if it is a free show they have made the effort to come along even if they are just there to see their 'Talented' son daughter sister etc. be a tree and "mess it up"

[nikkicallaghan]

1442399788[/url]' post='527709']

The thing with all these school shows is that there really is no need to spend lots of money, yet people do - and the audience will whoop and clap even if the acting is dire, the costumes tatty and the lighting awful. The trouble is everyone wants to have professional standards of technical and set, when the artistic component is usually pretty, er, variable. You might have a fabulous few in the lead roles, but the others mess it up.

 

Part of the fun is building the sets from whatever is available. Hiring it all in shows up too many warts.

I agree totally with you Paul. My youth theatre years ago had generally zero budget and we used black box with maybe a bit of staging if needed and nothing suffered for lack of set. Ultimately it comes down to the actors making the show. I'm involved with an amateur theatre and building a set with what you can beg, borrow or steal is all part of the enjoyment and I personally think forces people to be more creative instead of just throwing money at things

 

[paulears]

I'm not saying the technical standard should be poor, just that there is no need to raise it to the level that the kids and to be honest, the staff can't cope. Time and time again, you see every student miked up, with stacks of hired kit, yet the person 'in charge' is hopeless, never having done it before. You see masses of moving lights that nod and wobble exactly the same way throughout every song - again, quite unlike any pro show with a proper lighting designer. Costumes hired in, props and set hired in and the budgets frankly out of all proportion to the quality of the cast. Production elements support the performance, and in most school and college shows this is reversed.

 

It is important to achieve the highest possible production standards/values at all times no matter what the show is or who is in it within budget and time

Why?

 

Amdram for years had wobbly sets and iffy costumes, and really simple lighting and sound. The audiences still enjoyed it.

 

The key feature surely should be the basics. Clever equipment keeps a few people happy, most people don't even notice. Is ten grands worth of expenditure really worth ten times more than a grand?

 

I've never seen a college show that approaches the standards of the original professional show. Many are good, but for every Distinction student, there is a pass one or maybe two?

 

In education, the only critical issue is the grades. Professionally is NOT going to increase the grades, because the exam boards take great care to make budget and facilities irrelevant.

[theatretechie]

I'm with Propsman here. Some are amazing and some not so much.

 

But lets not forget where 90% of us started....Amdram, School, Youth Groups....

 

And to answer your question of 'Why?', Paulears, its simple.

With todays Health and Safety effectivly stopping young enthusiastic people getting hands on with kit and control systems. Its important to give a school production as much technical assistance as possible and involving the younger groups by showing them, inspiring them and giving them that sense of involvment and achievement will help our industry survive.

 

Getting more people who want to be involved and progress to better levels and maybe making a career of it is definatley worth every penny in my book.

 

Were I at school now with the darft HSE rules I doubt very much I would be in the position I am in today.

[timsabre]

Its important to give a school production as much technical assistance as possible and involving the younger groups by showing them, inspiring them and giving them that sense of involvment and achievement will help our industry survive.

 

This is absolutely true, but you don't have to spend a lot of money hiring in equipment/sets to do this and I think that's what Paul was saying.

In fact it is often more instructive and inspiring when you can make a show happen to a high standard using what you have available.

[paulears]

I respect your opinion, but really don't agree.

 

Health and Safety is not responsible for stopping kids getting hands on, it's that many places simply do not have the staff or the systems to do it safely.

 

I firmly believe that what is actually happening is that lighting design is being driven by short term 'wows', and essential really basic concepts are missing.

 

School is education of one type, college another, and then university a different thing again. In schools, the general standard of technical input into 'production' rather than 'performance' is poor. Very, very poor in many cases.

 

Once you get to college, they can enrol on a course that deals with proper production, but 16-18, these courses never demand levels of equipment commonly seen hired in.

 

Throwing a pile of hire equipment at school or college students does very little in terms of assisting their career development. Production pathways are frequently populated by people who can't sing, dance or act, and therefore MUST be backstage people. Of course, there are a few who really are suited for it, but realistically, there won;t be enough productions to have everyone be a proper lighting designer, set designer or sound designer - let alone SM, DSM, ASM etc. So it's all about simulation. The push into technical superbness is always because of a member of staff, and having a job where you can get in nice kit to play with is job satisfaction. How many schools have I visited where they have a wonderful kit stock? Very few. How many still have 60s Strand kit, some even with lamps in that work, compartment battens and 5A plugs - loads. Do the well equipped schools get better grades? Absolutely not - because the qualification system does not require equipment above a very basic level.

 

As a result, we have a load of students who really believe they are lighting experts, but aren't. They have critical areas missing from their studies. Really basic stuff like the need to light faces, or make sure that all the acting areas in a box set are lit properly. They may be able to produce a wonderful visualisation showing rock concert style lighting, but cannot focus a Fresnel or two to give even coverage. They won't understand the basic concepts of warm and cool, or how to correctly light a face.

 

They do know how to wire up a pile of DMX controlled equipment. They know how to patch it, but they cannot translate a director or production manager's basic requests. They may not even know that where kit is put is important.

 

If you do for example the schools version of WWRY - the show is cut down in many places to make things possible and within a schools ability. However, the staff and students immediately put back in projection, moving scenery, and very loud music, often played by a few good musicians, and a few, er not so good. All this is perfectly normal.

 

I've seen one of the non-acting kids given the title sound designer, and sat in front of a hired in mixer, with every cast member on radios. I've seen the teacher on the phone complaining to the hire company that it keeps feeding back (sorry, making a nasty whistling hum) demanding that when she ordered expensive professional equipment, it should not behave like this. The girl at the mixing desk dare not touch it, and the teacher had the cast turning on and off their mic packs as they entered and exited, which of course rarely happened. The pile of sound equipment also included monitors for the band, which also "didn't work properly".

 

The only musical I have ever seen that looked and sounded as good as a pro show was at LIPA - final year project. Everything else was at best, OK, and at worst dire. However, the applause was exactly the same.

 

 

Real experience that is useful career wise is indeed amateur and youth groups - where every single person wishes to be there, and wants to do everything 'right' and to as high a standard as possible. School, I exclude, and much college stuff too. University is usually OK, but they're often into more demanding productions where the acting or dance is the key feature, and the production budget modest in comparison. If university year 3 students did WWRY, I'd expect it to be impressive, but they're probably more likely to be doing Sunday in the Park with George.

 

My old college had a pile of moving lights that I'd bought from juggling budgets wherever I could, and I used them, all the time. When I left, my replacement is into musical theatre and since 1994 they have been unused. In fact, they cannibalised the flight cases for the wheels, hinges and bits, left the lights in a pile, where the technician, who hated all things technical, hid them away. Their shows are no worse or better - because they're nice to have, but nowhere near essential.

 

I did rather think my shows there were stunning - sadly, the videos don't seem to back up my memory.

[theatretechie]

Timsabre - I do agree with you. I wasn't refering to cost but of course that is always a concideration.

 

Paulears - I feel that the school age is just as important to inspire and encourage those with even a sparkle in their eye for technical. After all if they don't get exposed to it then its very unlikely they will jump on a college course later on.

In terms of the HSE, my sister is a head of music in a secondary school, I have read the HSE statement on under 18yr olds in relation to techical drama. Its so restrictive but also offers so many conditions (almost impossible guidelines) that, in her own words, they are concerned to follow due to just one thing going wrong and the book would be thrown at them.

In the past their little techncial minded bods give me information and I will move a few lights for them, colour and focus. They can then program on their own laptop with MagicQ and have at least a sense of ownership on what their parents see.

 

I know we all have different opinions and views here. This is based on my observations and experiences. I take onbaord all yours too. Its good discussion.

[propsman]

I do not want to get into the argument as regard Education Establishments, my disagreement with what Paul's statement was simply to do its generalising that all school amateur shows where the cast have little Talent should not have the same production values or standards as professional shows that have a lot of Talent in them.

 

My point is simply that whatever the level of talent there is on stage (in this case its a school show so according to you Paul, poor) does not mean the production values/standards should be poor also.

 

It is important to achieve the highest possible production standards/values at all times no matter what the show is or who is in it within budget and time....

 

 

Why you ask.....?

 

lets start by clearing up something....

I never said that you should throw masses of money at a production in order to make it better, my point is to do your best to make it the best you can "within budget and time"

 

when I work as a production manager I often find myself asking the question do we really need that or can we get the same if not better effect in a much simpler way and cheaper.

Many shows have production budgets out of proportion to the cast. It can be a large budget and not a talented cast or small budget and very talented cast...each one should be treated the same.

 

My point is no matter who is in the show and their level of talent, the attitude of its only amdram or a bunch of students/school kids should not be reflected in production standards/values. If you provide any production support to any show you should want to make it as good as you possible can and take pride in the fact that you have done so.

 

If an actor is on stage in the dark do you say ah well it does not matter we can't see them they can't act anyway, or it doesn't matter the sound is bad, there is only one of the cast that can sing?

 

To me It should not matter who has the bigger budget or the the moving lights or the most radio mics, the point is you should strive to make it the best you can, with the resources provided, and the production values/standards should not be determined by the talent that is on stage, because as I said I have no control over the talent on stage but I do have control over is on how well I do my job.

 

Yes the Key feature is the basics and if we can teach people who are studying in this industry and planing to make a career from it (in whatever capacity) how to do the basics, to do them well, and at all the times then that is a good thing as far as I am concerned.

 

As you said Paul

"I've never seen a college show that approaches the standards of the original professional show."

 

could that be because to many people have the attitude of "it doesn't matter its only amdram" or is it simply the "Talent" on stage is not good enough

 

Niki I find hard to believe that you agree with Paul when he says "You might have a fabulous few in the lead roles, but the others mess it up." is that the case in your youth/amateur theatre? and if you asked me to work on one of your shows I would do it to the same standard as I would any other and not in a substandard way just because its a youth/amateur theatre production, I would also do it within your budget and be as creative as possible.

[paulears]

I take the point entirely that we should always do our best, in terms of our input to meet the needs and expectations, but spending three grand on hire equipment nobody knows how to use is crazy. Surely the other point is that for the technical benefit to be worthwhile, the kids should be doing it, not us? If the school technician has to control the lights, or sound, or other roles, then the kids are just gophers. This is the problem - sometimes the benefit of the extra budget is making the person doing it happy, and really adds nothing to the kids experience.

 

 

Jon - I'm interested in the HSE guidance. Sports, PE and drama are excluded from their usual classroom guidance, and I've not seen any document that prevents kids doing lighting, subject to the usual sensible precautions. In fact, I read the information I have seen as an acceptance that the risks were higher in PE/Sport/Drama and some sciences, but were manageable - indeed, the point was made that there was no requirement to remove any element of risk.

 

I'd love to read this document, as I suspect many people may not have seen it. I've also had a quick look on the HSE site and can't seen anything specific there?

 

Is what you saw an official HSE document, or a school prepared interpretation?

[kerry davies]

I have read the HSE statement on under 18yr olds in relation to techical drama. Its so restrictive but also offers so many conditions (almost impossible guidelines)

I too would like a link to that since school and college students are not covered by HASAWA, hence nothing to do with HSE.

 

As for techno-gizmos then I believe less is more and K.I.S.S. There is nothing wrong with technical support for performers being high quality or even expensive as long as it is appropriate. In 99.999% of cases it isn't. Moving heads can look great in huge TV studios, arenas and stadia but are usually overkill in school and college theatres. As for spending a penny on things I cannot get the most out of then the next time will be the first.