jpinewoods Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 This coming Friday I have been asked to mic up a 7 piece vocal group in the style of Il Divo for a charity concert in a local Church. The Church has it's own PA system and mixing desk (although I do not know exactly what this is) through which backing tracks will be played, along with their output so it is just mics and foldback that I am led to believe I need to supply. My question is, would I be best to supply them each with a dynamic mic (probably a Sennheiser E835, primarily as that is the only one of which I have 7 copies) or would I be better off micing them up with a pair of condensers, more in the style of a choir. The group are semi-professional (they won Romania's Got Talent!!!), so they will know how to sing in balance, so the latter might be a decent option. The Church is known to have good acoustics. I did wonder whether they really need micing at all, but the group themselves suggest they do. I have never heard them but the charity host has and she says they are pretty loud. I am much more at home with sound for bands, so any advice would be appreciated. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bamba Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Ask the band whether they prefer choir mics or individual mics.or take both options along and roll with whatever they feel more comfortable with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 As bamba writes, if you are not prepared for both then sod's law states they will demand the other option. They may even want both options available at different points in their programme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shez Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 If the acoustic you're in is quite lively (being a church I would assume so) then close mic'ing is likely to provide better results. The last acapella five piece I did just wanted five 58s which they formed a semi circle around and balanced themselves very well. At the end of the day though, ask them what they need - no point in guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Whichever way you go; set the mic levels and then leave them alone. If you don't then you and the group will spend all night fighting each other. They'll balance themselves as they want it only for you to tweak it so that they then want to rebalance.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 I would really advise getting into the church and having a quick look at the "PA system and mixing desk" to ensure it will be ok for playing music through. You don't want to turn up and find a couple of 100V line columns and mixer amp from the 1950's. On they other hand they might have d&b line array. There's just no telling with churches, but a lot of church PA is designed to amplify voice only... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilary Watts Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 +1 for Tim's suggestion of having a look at the church. The fact that you are having to take mics and foldback suggests the PA facilities may be limited (are there enough input channels on the mixer for 7 mics and are there any aux outs for foldback?). I'd also check the 'mix position' which may be under the vicar's seat or in a cupboard .....although I'd agree with Brian's statement that once you've set the general balance and level you leave it to the singers to balance themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinewoods Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 Thanks for all the responses. I will take both dynamic and condensers with me. Unfortunately as they are in Romania, the lines of communications are not that easy. I have no direct contact with them until the day in the meantime and everything is going through the Charity event organiser, an interpreter and their manager so there is a high chance of anything I ask being misconstrued, misinterpreted, and come back as something entirely different! Unfortunately my work schedule won't allow for getting to the Church before the gig, but it has been refurbished within the last 5 years and regularly has bands playing at services so I am confident that the PA system is o.k. and fit for purpose. If, when I turn up that it isn't then they will have to go without amplification! There is nothing in the budget for a full PA system to be installed, unfortunately. +1 for Tim's suggestion of having a look at the church. The fact that you are having to take mics and foldback suggests the PA facilities may be limited (are there enough input channels on the mixer for 7 mics and are there any aux outs for foldback?). I'd also check the 'mix position' which may be under the vicar's seat or in a cupboard .....although I'd agree with Brian's statement that once you've set the general balance and level you leave it to the singers to balance themselves. I have just been told that they do have foldback so it is just miking that is required. I suspect they would also have mics, but as the charity is 'borrowing' the Church as a venue for the evening they are not so keen for us to use these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 People are coming from Romania, and nobody has bothered to organise this end properly? That's embarrassing! Remember that Romania is now quite forward thinking in the main, having had a real technology injection. Are you prepared for the format the tracks are coming in on, or will you arrive expecting a CD, and get an MD, or maybe an mp3 on a stick, or ........... No person who will get the flack if it goes wrong should just turn up without finding out what the system is so you can prepare. It could be so many different things nowadays. Is there a proper rider? Or hasn't anyone even asked? My band has four people - all who sing. Mixing us is a nightmare for anyone who doesn't know the music. Seven people would tax somebody who doesn't know the way it works. Some work the mics to create the balance, others, like the ones you see on TV a lot need help from the engineer. Seven also means it's damn hard to work out who is singing what. Hopefully it could be a set and forget balance, but I bet it's not! Even monitors with seven people won't be simple - Seven in a row is a big area for two wedges, you need to know some more info - what's the old thing about 'assume'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Gordon Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 A bit of research reveals the group are Brio Sonores, who won in 2014. See them in action on TV . Looks like two condensers, no fold-back in sight, and two extra singers. On the other hand, other videos have them working with individual hand-held radios. Yet another permutation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 I'll throw in one other consideration: the style of reinforcement wanted. If it's a bit of light reinforcement of an essentially acoustic performance then two or three condensers are fine. If they want it to sound like a typical concert with reasonable levels, the two condenser method will rapidly run out of gain before feedback. Kicking and screaming, I seem to have become the sound guy of choice for a local acapella group a bit larger than yours and we end up using a mix of three things. For big group numbers, it's the two (well, in our case, three) condenser route. However, we have a number of dynamic radio mics (835s in fact and they work well) which go to soloists. Finally, a subset of the group sometimes steps forward for a smaller group song and, for that, they gather round an NT4 stereo mic. Makes life fun when they change the order of things! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 That clip is a good one, you can hear the fold back leaking in, and the singers sound quite thin and weedy in places, which I'm sure they weren't but with no speakers close and a bunch of loud singing people they were probably quite loud, colouring the sound. It will be whatever you can do, won't it. No point worrying if they aren't! Just make sure you mention your concerns in a pleasant , positive email, as a backstop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinewoods Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 I now have a bit more info after a lot of digging. The Church is fairly well sorted with PA. They are running a 32 channel Yamaha LS9 and have an Aviom foldback controller. The group are, as suggested Brio Sonores. It is they who asked for the mics and will be happy with any kind of reinforcement. As can be seen by the Youtube videos they have experience in using both handheld dynamics and condensers so I will take both and make one of them work! The charity (a Hospice) is local to me and know me well and only asked this as a favour. I am sure there will be no comeback if things don't work out perfectly - they were hoping that they would sing without any amplification at all. Unsurprisingly there is no money in the job for me and therefore, although I will do my best with the tools available. I won't be looking over my shoulder all the time worrying about the client's response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo filters Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 My admittedly limited experience with this type of vocal group, is that regardless of their experience (or lack of it) with mics - if they are good (clearly so in this case) they are usually loud and well-rehearsed, and are usually very competent acapella - which is a good place to begin with at soundcheck. Ideally I would expect a more studio-type mic setup to capture the best balance of direct vox and the kind of flattering reflections churches often have inherent in their acoustic character. However that technique requires both time and a bit of experimentation to get the desired results, due to the inevitable GBF issues. In a more typical combat audio situation I'd begin with a cardioid dynamic mic for each member, on stands between one and two feet from their mouths, and low enough so as not to block the audience's sightlines to their faces. If they want to hold the mics then they can, however my experience with traditional folk ensembles is they often are only tolerating the presence of mics due to the size of the event, and prefer them as discreet as possible (and both classical and traditional folk musicians don't like the idea of holding mics because it makes them look like pop singers, boybands etc). At least this ensemble appear more contemporary and accepting of microphones. In terms of monitoring my experience is that many are so used to rehearsing without it, they don't need much if any on stage. Others may find it positively distracting as it's not usually provided at the type of events they perform at. However performing to tracks means obviously something will be required. Good luck with the event! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Hopefully it will be great fun - and even enjoyable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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