Yamaha TF Series

[cedd]

So there was me thinking that the QL series were the LS9 replacements. It would appear not!

 

http://yamahacommerc...php?prodID=1167

 

Some very nice multi touch features on the touch screen. Be interesting to see pricing.

 

E2A; Just seen that it's only got 2 banks of 100 scenes. That kind of kills off recall in theatre then!

[Simon Lewis]

Connections are pared back somewhat (compared to - say - an X32) but no doubt it will have the solid build quality you'd expect from Yamaha and perhaps a perceived better longevity.

 

Looks like a new stagebox will be used - wonder if it will fit the other Yamaha units? Hopefully it will be cost effective or else a Rio and Dante card would probably cost more than the desk!

 

One website has the press release ballpark prices...

 

The TF5 (MSRP: $4,200), TF3 (MSRP: $3,500) and TF1 (MSRP: $2,950) are scheduled to begin shipping in May 2015. The Tio1608-D and NY64-D (MSRP: TBD) are scheduled to ship in Spring 2016.

[mac.calder]

From the release I read, the new stage box is Dante and the expansion card (the NY64-D) is a 64x64 dante card and neither will be available until 'spring 2016'.... the specs also don't call it a mini-YGDAI expansion port - this makes me wonder if the desk will be 'coreless' for the first 12 months of its life. That sounds like a dangerous move on Yamaha's end when you look at the competitors in the same space - late to market and then incomplete.... hrm.

[themadhippy]

And if yamahas previous history with dante is anything to go by it will be at least 6 months late

[ghance]

And if yamahas previous history with dante is anything to go by it will be at least 6 months late

 

6 months delay over Dante? That's one hell of a latency

[PatrickSmith]

...Be interesting to see pricing.

 

Listing at:

 

TF1 - £2,170 inc. VAT

TF3 - £2,603 inc. VAT

TF5 - £3,038 inc VAT

 

First units shipping in May.

[Simon Lewis]

Excellent...!

I appreciate that they won't be available until next year, but is there any rough indication of likely price for the Tio1608-D and NY64-D ?

[mojo filters]

Excellent...!

I appreciate that they won't be available until next year, but is there any rough indication of likely price for the Tio1608-D and NY64-D ?

 

Nowhere seems to have pricing for these. Even threads where Yamaha CA staff have contributed. That suggests the extra year they're projected to take is a pretty well fixed timescale.

 

It seems very, very shortsighted not to have these items ready right now. This O1V successor already seems late to market, but it's a Yamaha so carries an enviable reputation for reliability, so in that sense they won't lose out as much as they might have - plus they get bonus marks for not announcing vapourware, assuming the desks ship as specified.

 

I never really understood why Yamaha utility stageboxes such as the Rio1608 are disproportionately so expensive. But even if they were compatible without a card, their price puts them out of reach for most likely buyers of this new series.

 

Likewise the delay for the Dante card seems odd, given how heavily they are already invested in that transport protocol. They've already got so much Dante tech in current products, I would have thought designing an appropriate expansion card would be a lot simpler than the new TF consoles themselves? This 12 month delay for affordable stageboxes and network connection is very strange!

[Simon Lewis]

I do not know if it's still the case, but one pro audio dealer once explained that Yamaha have a fairly long term research and product development cycle.

Whilst development may seem somewhat glacial, the thing we like about Yamaha is the reliability, longevity and dependability of their digital products.

However, other manufacturers seem to be able to get new designs and technologies to market in a fraction of the time that Yamaha take.

 

Ultimately, people will buy the larger Yamaha digital desks because they represent a solid level of engineering, audio quality features. However, Yamaha will continue to lose out on sales if slow product gestation means new cards and stageboxes aren't available when needed.

 

I'd guess that the Tio will have to be expensive enough not to jeopardise Rio sales, but the knowledge of a possibly cheaper stagebox arriving next year might delay some Rio sales?

[mojo filters]

I'd guess that the Tio will have to be expensive enough not to jeopardise Rio sales, but the knowledge of a possibly cheaper stagebox arriving next year might delay some Rio sales?

 

Yamaha reps have done nothing so far to deny the perception that head amps in TF desks and stagebox will be in line with the standard of preamps used in the analogue MG series. That doesn't sound like a cost saving worth making, for owners already invested in QL, CL etc - but I can see why some would be tempted.

 

I hope Tio stageboxes are compatible with M7s and LS9s, to provide an affordable digital stagebox solution for them. However the increase in bi-directional channel count for single card slots (and new expansion cards) may not be compatible with the old EtherSound protocol. Currently it costs around as much to buy 48in/24out Rio stageboxes new, as it does to buy a whole used M7CL-ES!

 

 

Hopefully TF won't sound like the MG desk I tried a few years ago. It was quite new, but sounded a bit wrong. It was a simple corporate; after a while speech sounded fine, but motivational walk-up music I cued sounded a bit muffled. Given these events usually used any old ~8ch desk from the usual suspects in a hire company's inventory - it's not like I was used to pristine studio quality.

 

I've read others criticise the MG mic pres and desk sound in general. I understand enough not to automatically blame the preamps, as there are so many other components in the circuit taken by the signal path, which could be to blame. I also expect the "one knob" compressor has given more scope for operator error, inevitably leading to perceived worse sound quality.

 

Even if TFs use MG grade analogue pres - given the whole circuit will be redesigned to incorporate digital remote gain and local trim control, I'd imagine that engineering job provides sufficient scope to design a cheap yet transparent and linear product. Given Behringer can now do it so cheaply, I'm confident the Yamaha engineers are equally or probably even more capable of getting this right.

 

Maybe the sales staff are happy to let folks think the TF and Tio are based partly on a product with a questionable reputation? Those who can afford it may buy more expensive product lines, whilst those (like myself) perfectly happy with the sound of an old O1V trust them to get this product right, just as they did 20 years ago!