Mackie Master Fader V3.0 & DL32R

[MarkBarl]

It would appear that Mackie have upped their game again in the area of compact, ipad control digital mixers with the new release of the Master Fader app to V3 and the launch of their new DR32R. I have a DL1608 which I have been very happy with (apart from the rather lackluster reverb), but am very pleased about the new functionality that has come with the new software. VCAs and subgroups will make mixing from the iPad a whole lot easier.

 

The functionality of the DL32R looks impressive as well. It is a whole lot of stuff to be mixing from an iPad, but it appears fully featured. Is it a serious contender to the X32 rack? Double the inputs for an extra £500

[S&L]

I think your prices may be a bit off Mark?

I'm seeing the DL32R offered for £1600 - that's:

£800 more than the x32 rack

£200 more than the x32 rack +s16 which gives the same channel count.

only £200 cheaper than a full x32.

it's also roughly the same price as the presonus 32 channel rack.

 

apologies if I am seeing the wrong prices but I looked at a number of places and they are broadly similar. and I think that's the problem - too little price incentive against a strong competitor in the market, which people are already pretty happy with the sound quality of.

just to add salt into the wound the x-air products come to market in another month or so - with an x-air xr18 supposed to be less than £500 for 18 channels, main LR, 4 aux outs and what appears to be a slimmed down x32 interface. I think when we get the other side of January's NAMM then we are going to see a very aggressive market at that bottom end. with maybe further price adjustments to behringer and Mackie's existing product lines.

 

being old school, I don't possess a tablet of my own but I'm going to have to rectify this soon and given prices and apples penchant for insisting software is only allowed for release on their latest version, I'm tempted to go for an android and use that for the x32's that I work with. that makes my next purchase after that the xr18 provided they follow through ontheir promise of dugan automixing - perfect for those small corporate gigs I'm now getting, along with small band gigs.

 

I'm not sure I will ever want to run 24 - 32 channels from a tablet but I'm wondering if the Mackie and presonus will score bigger with the under 30 market who seem to be born with tablets welded to them.

[OneEng]

I'll have to take a look at the new Master Fader app ;)

 

I am an X32 Rack user and am quite happy for now. I think that if I needed 16 more channels, I would just add a S16. Still, it is very good that we have competition in the market. Competition is always good for the consumer.

 

Keep in mind that the X32 Rack is actually a 22 channel mixer (16 XLR's and six 1/4"). I can do most gigs with it by itself.

 

I hear you on the verbs. I was very tempted to purchase the DL1608 before word of the X32 Rack came out. I am glad I waited. I love the efx on the X32. I was hoping that Mackie upped their game in this department.

 

The new Presonus rack mixer is also interesting. I am hoping that they have also improved a few things as well (pittiful -6db HPF on the channel strip, weakish verbs).

 

Both Mackie and Presonus now at least have recallable gains. That is a big step forward in my book.

[alistermorton]

apples penchant for insisting software is only allowed for release on their latest version, I'm tempted to go for an android

 

 

Really?

 

I've loaded software on to my old iPhone 3G no problem - it's only a problem if a developer has used something that is only available in the newer devices.

 

I also have an android device. Nasty thing. Horrible latency just when you don't need it.

 

 

 

[MarkBarl]

I think your prices may be a bit off Mark?

I'm seeing the DL32R offered for £1600 - that's:

£800 more than the x32 rack

£200 more than the x32 rack +s16 which gives the same channel count.

only £200 cheaper than a full x32.

it's also roughly the same price as the presonus 32 channel rack.

 

I make no claims, on price, I just did a very quick google to get some rough prices. Thanks for your more detailed costing.

[S&L]

re apple and restrictions to new versions - I should clarify that there was (as I understand it) a lot of to and fro with music group for their x32 app, whereby apple wouldn't allow the new app to be uploaded to their site and released until they were happy it worked on their latest gear and in doing so made it unworkable on their old gear.

However, since I posted my comment, I'm starting to see some chatter online that complicates the issue.

there was a case recently of a guy in the states getting so fed up with his ipad operating the 32 improperly (drop outs, freezes) that mid gig he walked across the road to walmart bought an android tablet, downloaded the software at the gig and rand the rest of the gig (and all his subsequent gigs) on his android.

plenty of users using the x32 say they prefer the indipendently developed android app.

all midas and music group current apps only work on ios 6 - but is this at apple's insistence as music group have said or is this actually a music group programming issue?

the qu app runs on 5.1 (for older ipads) as do the older x32 apps.

 

- I have two contributing factors for wanting to work with android rather than apple.

firstly, I dislike working with a company that charges a large premium for a monopoly product - a mac book may be more music friendly than a laptop but I can but 2 or 3 satisfactory laptops for the same price. the same is true of the ipad - I have my eye on the well reviewed hudl at the moment.

secondly, when it comes to working with music group products and specifically with the m32/x32 (although I will be using the android with x-air too) there are plenty of stories doing the rounds of ipads freezing the x32 and how one may avoid it, there have been no such moans regarding the android app. it's perhaps unfair to lay all that blame at apple - music group are aware and should be working out how to sort it, after all it's their app (apparently it's to do with how the x32 handles packets of data where the data is broken mid stream) - but the bottom line is that if I can get a more reliable product and software combination AND avoid lining apple's pockets then I'm sold.

[BradRWills]

Time to break my forum silence!

 

Loving the update to Master Fader - the VCAs and Subs, along with a more tactile feeling interface, has left me feeling like I have a much more professional level tool to mix with myself, and offer to my bands guest sound engineers. I particularly appreciate the increased recording facilities, and ability to trim the levels down on it, as well as the ability to record sub-mixes etc.

 

Eagerly awaiting the arrival of the My Fader update to give a full set of features, but overall, I was quite happy with the desk before, so this is a nice little bonus!

[OneEng]

S&L,

 

Do you have a link? I haven't heard of the X32 console ever locking up due to any external application. I have never had a lockup with my X32 Rack in any gig, or in any of the extensive testing I have done with it. In fact, I don't recall even reading about anyone else having a lockup of the console related to the wireless communications.

 

I have intentionally walked out of range, walked back in, stood at the edge of wireless range and generally tried everything I could think of to trip up the app and/or console.

 

On the flip side of this, I have heard numerous people who have had wireless issues with the DL1608, many who ended up selling it for something else as a result.

[BradRWills]

Have done the same thing - tested in and out.... The only time I've ever had a wireless issue, was because I didn't let the router boot before switching the desk on. The problems that people encounter are usually issues with cheap routers as far as I can tell - I use an airport express, because it just works.....

 

I Did have a problem with the main outs not coming up once....but that was the fault of the fella holding the iPad not noticing the mute group selected....oops ;)

 

I've used my DL1608 in some pretty challenging wireless and gig conditions (small festivals, military bases, venues in middle of business parks with 14 wifi networks showing etc) and its never once let me down for anything that wasn't entirely user error instigated.

 

Contrast that to the stories of failed faders, failed fader automation, paint peeling etc from the X32, the significantly higher price, and negligible feature benefits for what I do - and I'm quite happy with my DL1608 - for sure its not got the Pre's of a top end desk, but neither has anything else at that price range, and the Onyx is reasonable for the money IMO.

 

The new DL32R steps the game up a touch, by introducing ipad controlled gain - which is a feature I'm keen on too, but it comes at a cost.

[sam.spoons]

I have bought an X32 Compact but I'll be keeping my DL1608 as it's more than adequate for 80% of my gigs. It has performed faultlessly for over two years. The X32 will serve as my studio desk and just go out when I have a bigger gig come up.

[OneEng]

Yea, it could be that people have very old .... poor routers that are causing problems. I started off with a very cheep ($20.00) 2.4Ghz router. It worked just fine. I upgraded so I could utilize the 5Ghz spectrum in the future, not because of any issues I was having with the 2.4Ghz cheepo router ;)

 

Sam,

 

I completely agree that the DL1608 is much nicer for small gigs (which are much more numerous than large ones in general) than the X32 Compact. Despite the word "Compact" it is still quite a handful to carry ..... especially compared to the DL1608.

 

Comparing the DL1608 to the Presonus RM32AI or X32 Rack presents a different match-up IMHO. Now all of the contenders are small and light. The DL1608 lacks some pretty key features like key filters on the gates (as an example) which would keep it out of the race for many. The Presonus is a bit more full features.

 

I am personally very encouraged by the new group of rack mounted digital mixers. Competition is great for we consumers ;)

 

@BradRWills,

 

Behringer offers a life time guarantee on the faders for the X32 Rack ;)

 

 

[sam.spoons]

Behringer offers a life time guarantee on the faders for the X32 Rack ;)

 

Mackie do on the DL series too.......

 

My DL1608 in it's (home built from an ally camera case) case is around half the size and weight of an X32 Rack in a flightcase and has router and PSU built in, kettle socket on the back for power.

 

OTOH, I am still debating whether to buy a Rack or an S16 to supplement the Compact and, if the latter, I'll find it hard to justify keeping the DL. The S16 would be more convenient in the studio patch bay with it's I/O on the front but the X32 Rack offers more I/O and functions as a backup mixer on live gigs..... Now if the S16 had an ADAT input...... decisions.......

[OneEng]

Behringer offers a life time guarantee on the faders for the X32 Rack ;)

 

Mackie do on the DL series too.......

 

My DL1608 in it's (home built from an ally camera case) case is around half the size and weight of an X32 Rack in a flightcase and has router and PSU built in, kettle socket on the back for power.

 

OTOH, I am still debating whether to buy a Rack or an S16 to supplement the Compact and, if the latter, I'll find it hard to justify keeping the DL. The S16 would be more convenient in the studio patch bay with it's I/O on the front but the X32 Rack offers more I/O and functions as a backup mixer on live gigs..... Now if the S16 had an ADAT input...... decisions.......

 

Yea, it is hard to beat the size of the DL1608. Still, you should be able to get a pretty small rack for the X32 Rack. An X32 Compact along with an X32 Rack would be my choice for sure. You could use the X32 Rack as a stage box/channel extension to your X32 Compact for larger shows, then use the X32 Rack by itself for smaller gigs.

 

There just isn't enough price difference between the S16 and X32 Rack to not go with the X32 Rack in my book Sam ;)

 

 

 

[sam.spoons]

You are right, and price per input is even slightly cheaper for the Rack...... but...... then I see an S16 in my studio rack with all those nice mic inputs on the front and only one cable to connect it to the desk. Add another one from desk to the MacPro and half a dozen of analogue outs to the monitors and headphone amps and I'm good to go. The old analogue rig had 50+ connections to the desk and I still had to root around on the back to plug mics in so taking it out on a gig was a major PITA http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif.... Probably gonna end up with bothhttp://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif

[OneEng]

You are right, and price per input is even slightly cheaper for the Rack...... but...... then I see an S16 in my studio rack with all those nice mic inputs on the front and only one cable to connect it to the desk. Add another one from desk to the MacPro and half a dozen of analogue outs to the monitors and headphone amps and I'm good to go. The old analogue rig had 50+ connections to the desk and I still had to root around on the back to plug mics in so taking it out on a gig was a major PITA http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif.... Probably gonna end up with bothhttp://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif

 

Both is always the BEST answer Sam ..... if you can get your wife to go along with it http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif

 

As for the price per input .... it is only a factor if you actually utilize the inputs. On my X32 Rack, I rarely use up all 16 XLR's (which I use first even if I need to use a DI in front of them), and only use the 1/4" inputs for break music through my iPhone. I would need to eclipse 22 inputs before my X32 Rack couldn't do the job all by itself ..... and I haven't had any venue so far that needed that many inputs ..... even when micing up a full drum kit.

 

Also, checking the input capability of the DL32R, there are 32 physical inputs (despite the documentation stating 36).

 

Still, this should be more than enough for most situations.