College Lighting Console

[Ken Coker]

Let's be honest about this one. We talk about preparing kids for work in the industry (and I've done it myself) but it's rubbish really. There really are very few bad controls now, and there is no 'standard' just operator,

 

Quite so......."It's a school, we must have a theatre console" doesn't really make sense. I'd ask the theatre technician to write a short paper on why he wants a Hog . As it happens, the new Roadhog is an excellent console and the students I've shown it to have picked it up very quickly. They are, however, rather expensive. Frankly, a Chamsys MQ60 or MQ70 will do most of the things that a Hog will do and costs less.

 

The Congo is rather outdated now, although if you really want to wrestle with it you could buy a Cobalt and get the worse of all possible worlds.

 

I have a short theatre tour where all three theatres have a very competent staff and all three have an Ion. I'm taking my Titan Mobile to run the plot and run the shows..........it's the button pressing that gets me...The "theatre playback" on an Avo is now very simple indeed as is any later editing that needs to be done.

 

 

Of course you could demand that, as it would appear to be the concert industry's new standard, the school gets a full-size Grand MA.....the only console that can be seen from space.

 

As Paul says, there is no real standard anymore.

 

KC

[ianknight]

Let's be honest about this one. We talk about preparing kids for work in the industry (and I've done it myself) but it's rubbish really. There really are very few bad controls now, and there is no 'standard' just operator, venue and company preferences. If you like ETC then you will still use the others. I prefer Chamsys while others are Avo people. Nowadays we just have pretences and we argue continually about tiny features or minuscule differences on how things are done. In this example, the person who will have to use it wants a Hog. If one is within the budget, then buy it. They can all have a few faders labelled up so anyone can make lights come on. If a pianist in an orchestra liked steinways it would be silly to buy him a bosendorfer because a non-pianist thought it best. In the old days , some controls really were horrible but now they all have substantial followers.

 

We really need a "Like" button

[Ken Coker]

Has something happened?

 

This is the most rational discussion of "What Lighting Desk?" I've ever read on here.

 

KC

[top-cat]

Let's be honest about this one. We talk about preparing kids for work in the industry (and I've done it myself) but it's rubbish really. There really are very few bad controls now, and there is no 'standard' just operator, venue and company preferences. If you like ETC then you will still use the others. I prefer Chamsys while others are Avo people. Nowadays we just have pretences and we argue continually about tiny features or minuscule differences on how things are done. In this example, the person who will have to use it wants a Hog. If one is within the budget, then buy it. They can all have a few faders labelled up so anyone can make lights come on. If a pianist in an orchestra liked steinways it would be silly to buy him a bosendorfer because a non-pianist thought it best. In the old days , some controls really were horrible but now they all have substantial followers.

 

It's a mixed bag I think.

 

On one hand, there is probably no real need to 'train' people in schools on a particular type of desk, as by the time they've left school, and gone into theatre and are running a board somewhere, they'll probably have the skills needed anyway, and the desk will have changed so much in that time that most of it will need re-learning anyway. I learned on classic Avolites and now it's fair to say if I am going to use an Avo any time soon I will have to go and do the training... the OS has changed so much, and my skill fade extensive enough, that whatever I knew before will have mostly gone. Meanwhile I took on the MA2 for my current show and, since I already understand the fundamentals of lighting desks, it only took me a week or 2 to start basic programming on it and about a month or 2 to get a firm understanding of how it worked. And that is an intensely complicated console.

 

On the other hand, some schools do deal with students aged up to 18 and some will want to go straight into local theatre and/or amdram. And I do think that just understanding the way an ETC is programmed, along with basic knowledge of how to do it, will benefit some students in finding immediate work post-school. Particularly those not furthering their studies at University.

 

The main thing though is learning about lighting design and HOW to program. These skills are the same whatever board you use, and take the longest to master. So ultimately I think any desk offering simplicity which can inspire people to be creative and create elaborate designs, rather than being bogged down by the technicals of the console, is the best choice.

[LXbydesign]

For a school theatre Id suggest either an Ion or a Zero Solution (?) 96.

 

If 'industry standard' is required then Id certainly suggest an Ion or prehaps something like a Chamsys MQ100

[Leggy]

 

 

If it's plotted theatre the Hog 3 is the wrong desk

 

 

I would disagree completely with this statement. The Hog is quite capable of working this way.

The 3 is however discontinued, but the 4 series includes the Hedgehog and Roadhog, either of which could fit the bill for this job as the operator has requested a Hog.

Having said that, it would take very little time for any Hog user to become familiar with Chamsys.

There are a whole range of suitable consoles, it really does come down to personal preference.

 

 

Leggy.

[Junior8]

Looking back to my teaching days I'd agree with TC.To me the XL has a lot to offer in this sort of situation and I like the layout. But it's my kind of control... maybe it's an age thing? Paul is bang on with his comment too.

[Geetrt]

Hmmm... Should have read this threat first... Just made a similar comment in http://www.blue-room.org.uk/index.php?showtopic=62689

[Alec97]

Zero 88 Orb or Orb XF

[gareth]

I add my voice to those disagreeing with the "Hog3 is wrong" statements - I haven't programmed a Hog since I owned my Hog2 many years ago, but that was a great console to use for programming theatre-style shows and the basic operational philosophy didn't change that much between the 2 and the 3 (it just evolved a lot!). Hog3 is an old, obsolete model now, though, so I don't quite understand why the house tech wants to go down that road.

 

ETC Ion and fader wing would be my choice if I were in the college tech's shoes (or an Element if really pushed for cash, but you do lose some functionality) - but that's purely because I'm currently very much an Eos kinda guy. I've also done quite a bit on Chamsys MagicQ systems, and I reckon a smaller MagicQ would fit the bill nicely.

 

Horses for courses, really, innit? The people who are actually going to be using the console should speak to the manufacturers, blag themselves some places on a training course, go along and have a really good play, and see how they get on with the various options.

 

 

Zero 88 Orb or Orb XF

Why?

[dbuckley]

If this school is like every other school I've had the (mis)fortune to be in, the majority of the time it's more a question of "getting some lights on" rather than any lofty ambitions of getting kids ready to work in the industry or "industry standard" anything.

 

Thus something with faders that just work is by far and away the most sensible choice. The corollary is that if it doesn't have faders that "just work" then it's probably a poor choice.

 

"Just work" means power the desk up, and raise a fader, and lights come on.

[top-cat]

To be honest David that is a very short sighted and naive view of school theatres.

 

Whilst it may be true that for some, they want a simple system with a few faders they can lift and see lights come on, there is no shortage of school theatres in the UK who several times a year put on elaborate stage productions complete with proper plotted lighting and sound designs. I have worked with a few of them, and believe me they have needs far beyond "getting some lights on". Many of them have staff who have reasonable theatrical experience and they will put on shows more elaborate than a lot of Am Drams will.

 

I would not say for a minute that a desk which isn't a case of dimmer-per-fader is a bad choice. It depends on who is going to use it. If it's a multiple use space where general staff will want to be able to turn some stage light on, then it can be more sensible. But there are also other options for this, an easy one would be a simple rackmount DMX playback unit which can recall maybe 8-10 pre-programmed lighting states on simple push buttons. One of these, teamed up with a DMX merge, means you don't have to have them use the desk at all.

 

I would say any school looking to spend £5-10k on a console as well as buying more moving lights is suggesting that it takes it's theatre lighting very seriously, and that your opinion is not at all accurate or representative.

[dbuckley]

To be honest David that is a very short sighted and naive view of school theatres.

 

... there is no shortage of school theatres in the UK who several times a year put on elaborate stage productions complete with proper plotted lighting and sound designs.

None of which is incompatible with "getting some lights on". There is no reason why a fader per light desk cannot do complex plotted stuff as well. Some popular desks can only do the complex bit, not catering to the simpler needs. I'd suggest these desks are the desks to be avoided.

 

Most school theatrical venues do not sit idle between the "several times a year" they put on the big shows, they get used for lesser stuff.

[Don Allen]

I still recommend a fader based desk for schools, but there is not many around that can handle led's well, which is the main expansion area.

 

My first recommendation is the Pathway Cognito as it has very easy access to colour pickers and four encoder wheels, so it can handle movers and colour scrollers. The main limitation is the inbuilt 7 inch touch screen, but if you use an iPad with it, you get an extra screen plus remote focussing. This would also allow access to a playback screen and a fixture screen at the same time, so usefull for busking. The 20 faders allow for easy setup of the stage. Page 1 could be the 18 front lighting, (6xDS, 6xMS, 6xUS) assuming a McAndless method or similar is used. The second page could be nine back lights, cyc, sidelights and specials. There is no limit to the number of pages.

 

My second choice and not as flexible is the ETC Elent 60 500 channel , it has extra's included such as two screen operation,off line editor, But you need to buy touch screen for flexibility and there is no encoder wheels, only touch screen resolution or mouse.

 

We do not get much exposure to Zero 88 consoles so cannot compare there.

 

A school console has to be easy to bring up lights for basic users, but still offer access to setting up stage areas, have a stack and allow repeatability for colour selection. It should allow for 6in1 led's for a more homogenous colour spectrum.

[top-cat]

To be honest David that is a very short sighted and naive view of school theatres.

 

... there is no shortage of school theatres in the UK who several times a year put on elaborate stage productions complete with proper plotted lighting and sound designs.

None of which is incompatible with "getting some lights on". There is no reason why a fader per light desk cannot do complex plotted stuff as well. Some popular desks can only do the complex bit, not catering to the simpler needs. I'd suggest these desks are the desks to be avoided.

 

 

I don't disagree with that - the desk I recommended is indeed a fader-per-dimmer desk.

 

But sometimes, with a bigger stage, and fixtures spread all over, having to use a fader per light can be more challenging than using a preset desk where you can simply bring up 'stage wash' 'room light' 'red stage' or whatever other simplistically named playbacks you want to have so that non-technical users can have 'just lights' at the press of one button, not 10 spread over 100.