philmonty Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Hello Everyone. Only have a 6m sq stage. Looking to replace my Strand pattern 123's with something a bit more.....(How do I put this) POWER!!! - and spread. (They are currently on my LX2 ) and looking to replace my Pattern 23's for some better over stage spots. we are a charity run venue and we will be looking for a cheap solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianknight Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 You're missing some vital bits of info... A. What Power supply do you have available?B. How many dimmer channels do you have (and what rating are they)?C. What's the control desk? There are lots of alternative solutions to your dilemmna but many of them will entail discussion on how you're going to control them or power them. Whilst this next part may sound flippant but have you cleaned the lenses and reflectors on the Patt 123's and 23's lately and do they have the correct lamps fitted? My reason for asking is - I light in a little theatre and whilst we're using Patt 123's more than 23's nowadays, there's still enough light coming out of them for a stage that's about 7m by 6m. You won't buy better than a Patt 123 cheaply nor is there a "cheap" replacement for the Patt 23's (and part of my job is trying to persuade people to buy shiny new lanterns B-) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philmonty Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 Running power off of 2k strand STM Dimmers off of 3 phase power 15A (40 Chan ) the control desk is an ETC Element the 123's run off of 500w as do the patt 23 are lenses are clean but the date of manufacture is 1956 on a lot of our strand lx equipment. they are just getting a bit tired, and replacement parts are getting harder and harder to get. That's why I would like to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 When I bought a single P.123 in the mid 70s, it cost nearly twice what I earned a week! So that's between £600-£700 if you compare it. If you buy any of the current crop of affordable 650W profiles or Fresnels, then the light from your 123 is probably better in terms of quality. Brightness maybe not quite so. I guess we've also got to the stage where investment in tungsten lighting is seen as no longer sensible, yet LED versions are pretty expensive = as being talked about in another current topic. There are a few Chinese sourced profiles that thane the 750W lamp, and are styled after the ETC Source 4 range, but they are still quite expensive and are not totally compatible with ETC - some features are not the same - different sizes, different adjustments - but they are nice and bright and give a very clean light. A real Source 4 at maybe £400 v a Eurolight at £200? I've got the zooms, which are a bit less common, but again, about a couple of hundred quid less than the source 4. 650 is a pain - I think that's why the dimmer query was asked - 4 500's on an STM is fine, but only 3 650's - which is a nuisance. 500W lamps just not common any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirdtap Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Hello, are you still running the lanterns with the old round type lamp bases or have the lanterns been upgraded to accept the CP lamp ( two metal prongs)? Old type lamp This may be a cheap upgrade which will improve output Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingwalker Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Erm, think you have put the wrong link in there Thirdtap - Patt 23 and 123 used to use the T1 500w with a P28 base that have now been replaced with the T28 as the T1 is no longer manufacturered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirdtap Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 'lo, um yes that is the wrong link more indication of what the lamp base looks like Correct link I spent more effort on looking for an example of the lamp conversion kit link without any luck. Thanks Wingy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Allen Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 I cannot find a chart to provide accurate information, (I have a Philips wall chart at home), but there are high output short life and medium output long life versions of most theatre lamps. It does not appear on most on line catalogues so you do not know what you version are buying or have inherited. If you have the long life lamps in your fresnels, it could explain why they seem to have poor output. Found the data in the Blue Room Wiki Lamp data well done members ! base life output colour tempT17 (T28) 240 500 P28s 750 9500 2950 T28 (T17) 240 500 P28s 300 11000 3000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior8 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 You'd expect me to say clean them and keep them - and I would. I saw a show at a major theatre education institution the other week where near half of the lighting was Patt 23 and Patt 123 and a fair bit of similar age Strand kit as well. The results were perfectly acceptable, and in the end that is all really down to maintenance. Brightness is not everything, indeed it could be argued that it is over-rated, and there is a lot to be said for the Patt 123 in well adjusted condition with a clean reflector. I never up-rated any of mine to 650W incidentally though I did start to use the T28 for lamp life reasons as towards the end of my active years the T20s weren't eveything they'd been in the past. Paul is right the Patt 123 was a major investment when new - which is why they are soldiering on now. I'd stick with them for a bit longer and just see how technology devlops over the next couple of years on cost and efficiency grounds. After all they don't owe you any money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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