pro-am insurance, dry hire insurance, dry hire contracts

[S&L]

I run a small sound and light outfit, working mostly with amateur musicians in bars and small hall, providing PA and a little lighting,

I have three possible business areas that are coming to light, that I haven't been involved with before and I need to get organised with or take a view on:

 

1. equipment insurance. specifically for our x32. we watch our gear, keep it under lock and key when flight cased and so far have only used it ourself so theft and damage risks are minimal. as such we haven't insured our gear - but if someone threw a pint over the x32, I couldn't afford to replace it. I also couldn't expect the amateurs I'm working for to stump up £2k another. Is there insurance available to pro-am's like myself who take pay that is more like expenses than pay - insurance to cover mainly accidental damage as described.

I was looking at the music guard insurance which gives PLI (which we have never been directly asked for - but would be useful to have) but the policy seems to be pretty vague about on the job damage.

 

2. a few other freelance engineers and small companies are aware that I now have an x32 and one has asked about the possibility of hiring. Dry hire isn't something we do and I won't be getting into it seriously but I'm wondering whether to make the x32 and some other stock available to engineers (as distinct from folk I don't know) - obviously we could come to a gentleman's agreement but I'm left pondering what is usual? should I insure and if so where would I get hire insurance? the few times I have dry hired from other companies I have been told that as the hirer I am responsible for hire - but then sometimes if I hire plant. trailers, vans, insurance is included.

 

3. it follows that IF I dry hire, I will need a contract - is there a standard template somewhere that others use. IF I do this, I assume this is going to be once in a blue moon thing - but I want to explore the possibilities, at least.

[GR1]

I've never seen affordable All Risks Insurance for the market you have described. Most AV and sound hire Co's either make the client insure or charge a separate amount, typically 5% of the full book hire rate and insure themselves on the basis that they will just about break even over a number of hires. You seem to be thinking that there might be a fluffy market where mates look after each others kit and everything goes very well. You can only hire kit out as a fully professional proposition. Stuff will fail and get damaged. If your kit fails you will need to be able to afford to hire replacement stuff in at short notice and if the rates you are thinking of charging don't allow for this then keep out of the market. You may well get phone calls at all hours to explain a software shortcut on the desk or the operator being silly.

 

For insurance relating to musicians I would contact the MU and for Am Drams the Little Theatre Guild.

 

I don't think PLI is a good thing to have, from the description of what you already do I would expect you to have it as a matter of course as well as a full PAT test record because if I were writing a contract for a venue to hire a band all that would be compulsory in the contract, risk assessment and method statements.

 

I have my own small PA which I only use on my own events and never hire out. That is how it will stay. Think the ramifications through thoroughly because this could be a very good way to lose friends if you don't.

[paulears]

When we set up the magicq hire service, this is the problem many of us had - the insurance companies considered it a bad risk - as you are only insuring because the risk is too high for you for the one event, and the preium for an entire year on everything is fine for a bigger business with high kit turnover, but for the occasional hire, it just doesn't work. Many of us therefore either take the risk when we know the person, or maybe they;re friends of friends, but strangers get left out.

[S&L]

I think I had better clarify:

 

1. I only see the dry hire to fellow engineers because they ask now and then (around a dozen or so I know and one or two have asked so far), not as a main income stream - and from what's said above, I think I need to point them at self insure - I just need a contract form to back that up.

 

2, I still need to think about insurance for my own use - or are we saying that isn't available at this level?

 

3. PLI - the bands I work with, including functions in hotels are seldom asked for PLI and never formally contracted. in the past, for the couple of function that have asked for PLI, I have joined the band for the week - this isn't really stretching the truth that far - I'm as much a freelancer as anything.

 

4. PAT tests in my world tend to get asked for by hotels in the wedding season, so we tend to pat test as and when - I.e if we get a wedding booked in for say june then we pat test all the gear that goes out to that function in May. However, PAT tests are not a legal requirement - unless someone adds it into a contract - it's a requirement that my equipment is maintained in a safe condition - how I arrive at that conclusion is a matter for myself - obviously that is more easily established to a third party if PAT tested. in many cases our equipment is new and new equipment is not required to PAT test - on the other hand we never wait for an annual pat test to do the visual inspection, most gear gets inspected every six weeks or so, particularly mains leads and mains adapters. anyone who relies on annual PAT testing to visually inspect is arguably not fulfilling the regulation requirement.

 

but we digress - my questions are about self insurance, dry hire insurance (which I think we have established is a non starter) and dry hire standard contract

[Brian]

...my questions are about self insurance, dry hire insurance (which I think we have established is a non starter) and dry hire standard contract

 

If you haven't read this, then it's worth doing so. Read the whole thread carefully, from start to finish, for a sobering tale.

[S&L]

...my questions are about self insurance, dry hire insurance (which I think we have established is a non starter) and dry hire standard contract

 

If you haven't read this, then it's worth doing so. Read the whole thread carefully, from start to finish, for a sobering tale.

 

thanks Brian - there is nothing like a sobering tale to clarify thought.

for me the most relevant thing to conclude from that thread is that one can't trust one's customer to insure the hire. I can now think of only two contacts I would be prepared to hire to and trust them to cover the cost of damage - one that I have hired from myself and to whom console replacement or repair would be small potatoes and another whom I I get enough work from and assistance from to be comfortable taking a risk - so in both these cases a hire contract would be pretty much redundant. Beyond that, while I know others, I'm not sure I know enough about them to cover loss in a worst case scenario.

 

Despite others insisting that we leave gear at a venue overnight (often after a show) I have always insisted on getting our gear back under lock and key.

 

So I'm left with my main risk being accidental dame by another at a venue while I use the console. can anyone recommend insurance for this eventuality, with or without PLI rolled up into the same policy.

[ImagineerTom]

"Accidental damage" insurance is an expensive waste of time.

[Pete McCrea]

Pick up the phone and have a chat with a couple of specialist insurers. They listen to where your at, then look to offer a policy that works, so tell if they can't cover you. As you're only looking at smaller kit values the premium might not be horrific.