plainman007 Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Hi Guys, Im just about to get a bunch of Led Pars. Im getting the 54 x 3w leds model, approx 10 nos. A chinese brand but reasonably good quality. They offered me 3 qualities and I chose medium level as this will be used maybe 10 times a year for certain specific small venue shows. If they outdo my pars or at least come close to half their power. I don't mind buying another 10 more. Im thinking of getting these because a few years ago led fixtures were pretty dull but nowadays they have turned out pretty bright and have vastly improved and have extremely low power requirements. My question is....Will 10 nos of the above mentioned LED fixtures work as front or gen lighting for a stage where the venue has only a small stage of w25'x d15'. My regular par 64s will need a complete generator van at the venue etc and the venue is a little conservative kind of location if I'm putting it rightly. So I wanted to get 10 of these and put 5 on each side on T bar stands and I assume these things will run 4 on a domestic power strip. If any of you are using such lights and know about 54x3w fixtures please do advise. The nature of this show wouldn't require to light an area larger than 20' x 10' as that would be the main playing area. So if I get them on almost to the sides and at a 45° angle pointing downwards then would these suffice. Also I am not looking for an extremely intense kind of lighting. A tad bit subdued is ok. Please advise. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 A venue near me dumped their old lighting and installed all LED cans on their FOH and stage bars. They seem to do quite well, and nobody has moaned about them that I'm aware. These are older than yours and dimmer, but If you have 10, they can all be on. If they were ordinary cans and you wanted a red wash you'd have what? 3 or 4 on - compare this to them all on and it makes the thing quite workable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadhippy Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 10 seems an odd number to me,id try and strech the cash to get 12, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plainman007 Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 I dont mind. Ill get 12. And then maybe for a slightly larger area of 30'x18' maybe 12 more and ill have a total of 24 to use for that. But I first want to run 10-12 at this small venue. Size to power of fixtures ratio sounds right ? 12 fixtures to light a stage of w25'x d15', With the main playing area being only 20'x10',,,Sounds ok ? Even the light supplier told me 8 would do the trick. But I thought ill go 10 or a dozen to start with. See this sample video,,,,Those are 12 nos of the same kind of light (54x3w LED),,,,just look at the intensity of light. I could do with half that inensity for my application. I dont want harshly bright lighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roderick Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 See this sample video,,,,Those are 12 nos of the same kind of light (54x3w LED),,,,just look at the intensity of light. I could do with half that inensity for my application. I dont want harshly bright lighting.Tip: Don't judge the intensity of a light based on a video, certainly not when produced by the manufacturer. It is very easy to overexpose an image or video, I could make a single candle look that bright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plainman007 Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 Chief > I admit you have a very valid point there. But im just hoping that 10 of these cover this small stage. Its getting harrowing to connect up and wire 12 pars with heavy duty cabling and thru a DMX dimmer pack etc. And that was with all 10 being open white. I thought these will atleast give me some color wash possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 They are very good for saturated colours, but you can't get a good white out of them. You need Rgbw cans to get a reasonable white, or put in a few white - only fixtures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I'm not sure that's quite right now. The RGB part of my RGBW lights is very close, and knocking the green down just a tad is virtually the same perceived colour as the white. I tried them against some halogen 1Ks and the white that the RGB produces does match - just about, and being able to add the W part to the mixed white from the RGB is a welcome brightness benefit too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plainman007 Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 They are very good for saturated colours, but you can't get a good white out of them. You need Rgbw cans to get a reasonable white, or put in a few white - only fixtures. Im sorry I forgot to mention the ones im getting are RGBW units. 54x3w leds. Will these put out good whites ? And will they eliminate the rainbow shadow effect ? Also if you've worked with these wattages (54x3w or even 36x3w) how many have you or would you have used to general front light a 20x15 feet stage ? I'm not sure that's quite right now. The RGB part of my RGBW lights is very close, and knocking the green down just a tad is virtually the same perceived colour as the white. I tried them against some halogen 1Ks and the white that the RGB produces does match - just about, and being able to add the W part to the mixed white from the RGB is a welcome brightness benefit too! Dear Paul, Im getting RGBW units. If your currently using fixtures like these or lower/dimmer ones even. Could you just share how many of them your needing to light what kind of coverage area ? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I'm not sure that's quite right now. The RGB part of my RGBW lights is very close, and knocking the green down just a tad is virtually the same perceived colour as the white. I tried them against some halogen 1Ks and the white that the RGB produces does match - just about, and being able to add the W part to the mixed white from the RGB is a welcome brightness benefit too! Interesting, it just looks different to my eyes, I don't know why. I've got some of the 7x3W mini pars from Thomann and you can mix something that looks equivalent to a halogen white, but when I light an area with it, I can perceive the separate RGB colours somehow. I think it may be flicker from the PWM as the different colours turn on and off at different times. If you add in white LEDs then the effect is very much reduced and it looks more convincing. Maybe it's just me, I know I am very sensitive to flicker particularly in my peripheral vision. If your proposed fixtures have "all in one" lenses, i.e. the colour is mixed within the lens rather than having separate lenses for each colour, then the rainbow shadows are pretty much eliminated. And if they are RGBW you will be able to get a reasonably good white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plainman007 Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 I dont know to whom your saying what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I dont know to whom your saying what. Sorrythe last paragraph was directed at you. Ignore the first paragraph, it is just my ramblings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I think we've just sidetracked a little because the lights you mentioned in the first post are unknown, apart from the number of LEDs and how many Watts each one is. Even if you said which ones you are thinking of, the best we could come up with would be 'probably'. Ten of whichever model you are thinking about will give you quite a few sources of light, and the thing with LED light only is that brightness is very subjective. If you have something like a Source 4, that many people are familiar with, then you can put the LED up against it and compare. One 3 year old vintage LED can look pretty bright on it's own in a dark space. Stick that one next to a circle of light produced by a Source 4 and everyone would think the LED quite dim. Today's are much brighter. Tim and I are also looking at how LEDs manage colour. With tungsten light, red, plus green plus blue produces a pretty 'normal' white light. This isn't the case with LEDs. You get a kind of white (to the eye), but's it's made up of bits and pieces of the colour spectrum - so sometimes off things happen to costumes or scenery. This probably isn't of much importance to you. The thing that seems pretty clear is that RGBW LED equipment is not all exactly the same. The specs look the same, but mean very little really. The rainbow shadow is a consequence of 'making' white out of RGB. You have 54 LEDs that have in each one 4 separate elements. The lens on the front's not in the same position for each one, so in the centre of the beams they mix, but at the edges there will inevitably be some colour fringing. Have a look at this topic This shows the colour fringe effects of the 10W RGBW modules. The 3W modules are spaced closer together, but the cutoff in the small modules still happens. On these ones, there is a diffuser to mask it - which works pretty week but loses some light. Outside the beam centre, it's fair to say these optical anomalies are quite dim, but they are there. I suppose you'll have to bite the bullet and try them out to see if they work for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicktaylor Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I have a small hire company. Obviously I have looked at the chinese market, but was advised by a professional a few years ago to avoid being the importer as is something went wrong how do you sort it out. Just after Christmas I bought six ex rental quad led pars by Visage. I am very pleased with them. They are less than a year old and look as new. At the price I paid used I will easily get my money back. Maybe buyers for village halls should be looking at nearly new rather than risking the Chinese direct route? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plainman007 Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 Im not buying directly from China. Im buying it in my country from the guy who buys them in bulk and distributes throughout the country. If I were to buy from China directly will be a huge risk. Plus customs might hold back the lights and ask for a sum as customs duty, Anybody whos done a show with 10 or so of these as general lighting and have any pictures that are not jacked up exposure, can you share them here. Video will be even more great. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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