Hanging Curtain Runner from Vertical Wall

[Craig A]

Hi All

 

We currently have a single section curtain rigged to and running along the upstage wall that opens with a basic rope pulley at one end (Not sure what the technical term for this would be!). We have a stage dividing curtain that leaves some backstage room behind it, but sometimes a bigger stage is needed so the previous curtain is used to mask the upstage wall and door to our amp room. However, the only discreet entrance backstage is central and when the entire stage is being used it is impossible to get to the SR wing without walking in front of the curtain, or looking ridiculous trying to walk behind it!

 

Ideally, I would like between 0.5 - 1.00 metre of space between this curtain and the wall to serve as a walkway. I have searched for a wall mounting bracket that will leave this amount of space with no luck, is it likely/possible and could anybody recommend any?

 

If this is not going to be a suitable option, what would be the best way to achieve what I want?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Craig

[Shez]

Is there a particular reason why you can't rig the track from the ceiling? Threaded studding, SWR, even hemp lines are not unusually used for this purpose.

[Craig A]

I would much rather rig the track from the ceiling. The curtain that we have is only about 2.5 - 3.00 metre high though and our main beams are about 8 metres so I was predicting that there way be a bit of a swinging problem. Would this be a factor do you reckon, or am I over thinking it?

 

I'd love to have it rigged from the ceiling with 5 metre high curtain like our others, but it's about 10-12 metres wide and I've mentioned buying a longer curtain to replace it before with a not too convincing reply.

[john-sp]

It might not be quite big enough but this is a 500mm wall bracket. http://www.doughty-engineering.co.uk/cgi-bin/trolleyed_public.cgi?action=showprod_T84105

 

 

HTH

John

[Dave m]

by the time I went upstairs to look at ours, John had posted the link I was going to show

 

http://www.doughty-engineering.co.uk/cgi-bin/trolleyed_public.cgi?action=showprod_T84105

 

I'm sure that something similar could be made by a local fabricator out of angle steel, and made slightly longer with an increase in the number of brackets used to lower the leverage on each one.

[Craig A]

Yeah that's what I'm looking for, thank you!

 

500mm is the shortest I think I could get away with but I think I will need a bit more. However, I haven't checked or tested anything yet, as it's only recently been mentioned, so it might be okay. A local fabricator also might be a good idea, I'll look into it!

Would this be the only way of rigging from a vertical wall?

[Shez]

A few years back we had some brackets custom made for rigging some LX bars from side walls - I think they were 600 or 700mm. Similar idea to those linked to above. An easy job for a local metal shop. Alas they ended up in a skip when our biggest performance space was destroyed re-purposed but that's a whole other story.

 

Edit to add: A structural engineer designed the brackets and checked the walls; we negotiated loading figures with him.

[Hilary Watts]

You could suspend the track from the ceiling but with a number of struts holding it a fixed distance from the wall. The advantage would be that the vertical suspension would take the weight of the curtains and the track and the struts (and the associated fixings in the wall) could be relatively lightweight since they would simply have to prevent lateral movement. This would enable you to mount the track further from the wall than might otherwise be practicable.

[top-cat]

500mm need not be the shortest at all. You could use Unistrut Cantliver arms for this application no problem. The 41mm type go up to 750mm

 

http://www.unistrut....ntilever%20Arms

 

Beyond that, any fabrications company will make you one as long as you like, providing it has sufficient anchorage in the wall.

 

Pete Smith Inspections in Northampton; or Independent Studio Services in Bury St Edmunds; would be 2 of the obvious providers of such a bespoke system.

[Craig A]

Getting the brackets custom made is the most likely idea to get the go ahead from the powers that be so I think I'll try looking into that first. Thank you.

You could suspend the track from the ceiling but with a number of struts holding it a fixed distance from the wall. The advantage would be that the vertical suspension would take the weight of the curtains and the track and the struts (and the associated fixings in the wall) could be relatively lightweight since they would simply have to prevent lateral movement. This would enable you to mount the track further from the wall than might otherwise be practicable.

As a long term plan I imagine this would be better as it also means when we eventually get the taller curtains I could just shorten the vertical suspensions. Right?

 

 

500mm need not be the shortest at all. You could use Unistrut Cantliver arms for this application no problem. The 41mm type go up to 750mm

The cantilever arms would be perfect. In the broadest sense, would it be a case of using rawlplugs/anchor bolts to rig it to the wall?

 

Also, OT, does anyone know the best way to convert kN to Kg as one is force and one is weight? I'm sure this has probably been asked before.

[Jevans]

Also, OT, does anyone know the best way to convert kN to Kg as one is force and one is weight? I'm sure this has probably been asked before.

 

Weight = Mass * 9.81 (at the Earth's surface, anyway!) so a 1kg mass has a weight of 9.81 N, or 0.00981 kN. You can easily approximate the 9.81 just to be 10 for estimates.

 

Kilograms are a unit of mass, which is a measure of how much "stuff" you have, and Newtons are a unit of force. Weight is what we call the force of gravity acting on things when you're on a planet or moon.

[ImagineerTom]

For "fag packet calculations" you just multiply by 10..... but it's not that simple as you're trying to convert Oranges in to Bricks and there's a whole host of other sums you need to do with these numbers BEFORE you start trying to convert them in to "real world" numbers if they are going to have any real meaning.

[Craig A]

Okay, so regarding rough calculations 1Kg is about 10 N, so 1Kn is about 100Kg?

 

So here's the theoretical. The highest force on the end of a 750mm Unistrut cantilever arm is 0.61Kn which works out at roughly 55-60kg of force. How do I use this information for calculating the SWL?

[ImagineerTom]

if you have to ask the question then you're not qualified to do this....

 

However so that you understand the process's involved it's a worthwhile exercise trying to work this all out for yourself. Find out the weight of the curtain tracks, bobbins, nuts+bolts, rope, curtains, EVERYTHING you're going to hang up. Now you've got to make some allowances for the forces involved in actually moving the curtains (either someone manually pulling them closed or someone pulling the rope controls) - you can do lots of very complicated sums here but a good rule of thumb is that you should double the weight of curtains to allow for the forces typically involved in closing/opening them (one over-enthusiastic tug on a control rope etc) so if your tracks/curtains/etc weight a120kg then to allow for "operation forces" you should be assuming 240kg total weight.

 

Now you have to build in your safety margin - because it's "stuff above peoples head" and because if it falls down metal track can do some serious damage you need to move to the conservative end of the spectrum - a safety factor of 4:1 is really the minimum you should be considering so you need bracket(s) that between them can support 960kg of weight.

 

Because curtain track isn't self-bracing you'll actually need a bracket every 2m at least, you also should assume that at least one of the brackets might be faulty / not aligned properly and so "doesn't exist" for mathematical purposes and do your sums accordingly.

 

So assuming the curtains/track as outlined above on (say) a 10m long curtain track you need AT LEAST 6 brackets (evenly spaced @2m & properly installed) that are rated to 190kg each, or 11 (evenly spaced @1m and properly installed) that are rated to 96kg each etc etc

 

Obviously all these sums need to be done properly by a suitably competent person and double-checked as if they are wrong things get expensive and painful very quickly.

 

It's also wise to make sure that the rail itself and the brackets are marked up with their ratings so that in 5 years time when someone else looks at them they can make an informed decision about whether the curtain track is strong enough to hold their new curtains.

[Craig A]

I'm definitely not one to attempt something if I have doubts, this has become more of an information hunt now!

 

It is very worthwhile to understand the processes and thank you for taking the time to explain them. I'm not completely without knowledge but if in doubt! A couple of questions and reaffirmations:

 

- Regarding safety factors. The entire weight is 240kg, if 6 brackets are marked SWL 50 kg 5:1 I understand this would be right. Am I correct?

 

- Referring back to my original question. If something is marked in Newtons, I can convert it to Kg of Force but what is this then in simply Kg?

 

Edit: I think you may have already answered my second question, Long day!!!