Linux Replacement

[gruntus]

Hi

not quite sure if this is the right place

 

 

I have used qlab and Show cue system.

 

 

I had problems with both and some pc's crash so got me to looking. so after a lot of research Linux is the most reliable os currently ad is quick. so got me thinking I should make a Linux show cue system to do the same. but by this I mean to design a OS which is running nothing else but just the show cue system that way there would be nothing else to cause conflict or cause it to fail.

 

What do people think ? Good Idea or not much point?

or and suggestions ?

 

 

 

Thanks

[Shez]

I've been using SCS for several years now. I use it on a dedicated PC that's set up just to run SCS (and Reaper for editing if needed) but nothing else. It's rock solid and has never let me down mid-show.

 

When people have trouble with PCs (be they running Windows, MacOS or something else) it's usually because they're not set up properly, have too much other software running in the background, are full of viruses etc. Despite popular belief, Windows isn't inherently unstable.

 

I run Linux at home and am quite happy messing about with it so I'd be interested to try out cueing software but if I was to use it in the real world, it would have to be pretty much as fully featured as SCS which is a pretty big ask...

[patrick_keys]

The best way to work out whether it will suit you is to try it. The quality of Linux installers has increased exponentially in the last few years, and is every bit as usable as a Windows system. It's also true that as a platform, it can be much more stable, especially if you spend the time configuring it properly. I've built many control systems using Linux - and reliability-wise, I can't fault it. Admittedly I do have significant experience in this area, but everyone has to start somewhere - and it's a lot easier than it used to be.

 

Having said that, you do need to learn a new way of doing things, and you'll need to find alternatives to the software that you've been using. In some cases, it's possible to run Windows software on Linux using the Wine emulator, but in other cases, you'll need to look for an alternative. If I were you, I'd spend some time playing with it - see if you can configure an older PC to do what you need it to do - you'll learn a huge amount in the process. Be prepared to get very frustrated in the process, but don't be afraid to ask for help in any of the Internet forums if you need it. I'd also recommend picking one of the more modern distributions to get started with - a lot of people recommend Ubuntu, but I would personally recommend openSUSE.

 

Good luck!

[alistermorton]

I'd second what both Shez and Patrick have said. I've had no real problems with SCS on Windows (one known problem showed up, but I don't think that's a symptom of being on Windows), and Qlab on MacOS is in use in some high profile places, so I'd be looking at the platform configuation first - Windows and MacOS are pretty reliable if set up properly.

 

However, if you do decide to write your own system you've got a pretty high bar to reach (SCS/Qlab/SFX et al) and I suspect you're going to become pretty up close and personal with gcc and the linux software model. Pick your linux carefully; as in all things, some are more equal than others. Then decide if you're aiming at writing a system which runs on all linuxes (linii ?) or just on your chosen flavour.

[ImagineerTom]

Why not build a windows based machine that runs nothing but Showcue?

 

Why do you think other users would want to change their entire system and move to a whole new operating system just to accommodate your software?

[GR1]

I have run my sound cues on Sports Sound Pro with Windows 7 for 3 years. It has never crashed. I have all the power saving options and updates turned off and only run SSP. Why would I fix semething that works?

[gruntus]

Thanks for some of the advice.

 

 

 

I have build Several Windows pc running Show Cue before some which have never failed and some which have. recently had one Lagging when running multiple tracks. Also randomly Skipping back one of the tracks mid track but only one of the multi tracks( sounded Awful during the show) this PC was build and running nothing else but SCS latest version. Having been a IT Technician 5 years I know they were set up correctly enough ram fast processor solid State Hard disc there should have been no lag yet there was. also had a couple blue screen. I had some odd errors with Qlab. I have had it just disconnect form sound controller during a show (very bad! ) also wouldn't accept some video file which was in the right format etc.... ending couple of phone calls re editing the footage and re-render then it accepted it.

 

I am well aware of the fact that most people might see the idea but most people duel Boot which was my reasoning if you were running small shows on a small budget you could install a Linux os and run dedicated for shows etc while still then use the machine for other purpose.

 

 

This will take some time to make anyway (Rome wasn't build in a day) but I just thought why not make something that has no reason to fail. Linux doesn't have the issues with drivers that windows has( is debatable on some hardware)

 

I never had a issue if just running one cue after another its when built things up so the cue is running 12 or 13 tracks to several outputs.

[ImagineerTom]

but most people duel Boot

they don't, they really don't. Many Lynux users do but most computer users don't and instantly you've added a whole layer of additional skills and "crazy ideas to get ya head around" that the end user has got to cope with. This is not going to be the "simple" solution you're proposing.

I'd also be so bold as to suggest that if as an IT tech you can't bash together windows based PC that's stable enough to run fairly basic audio processing then you perhaps shouldn't boast about it. The answer to the problems you mention can be quickly solved through the correct choice of windows version, appropriately spec'd processors and ram and scrutinising background operations. There's a theoretical argument that a more efficient processing system could solve the problem but this is an overly complicated solution to a problem for which there are existing off-the-shelf solutions.

The problems you've mentioned with Qlab sound more like problems with the software itself and codec issues rather than platform based so your solution wouldn't necessarily resolve them.

 

I never had a issue if just running one cue after another its when built things up so the cue is running 12 or 13 tracks to several outputs

and that is NOT a common situation in the theatre / events world. If you're regularly needing to run complex cues like that then you should be using a specialist playback device not a PC / software based solution on ANY platform

[dosxuk]

At my main regular gig, both the sound desks and lighting desks run Windows. If Windows was as unstable as you make out, there would have been far more events cancelled due to "technical difficulties" than I'm aware of - zero.

 

It has to be said these aren't just off the shelf PCs running cheap software, but they're still running Windows under the skin. I have far more trouble with moving heads deciding not to accept DMX, or the cat 5 link between local and stage racks on the sound desk getting itself confused than I do with any of the Windows installations.

 

The digital signage system I built at my old workplace ran entirely on Windows, and had uptimes measured in months. Something I was continually told was impossible by people who thought I should be using Linux.

[gruntus]

"suggest" is not really the word I was I IT Tech I could give you the numbers of where I worked. but trust me hardware is not the problem.

 

 

The last one I Built Duel Intel I7 x940 2.13GHz with 16gb Ram and a 250Gb Solid Sate Drive running Win 7 Ultimate.

 

This is a clean install with all but the needed background services. Yet it lagged....

 

 

I have always been a windows person so don't get me wrong I have never found windows unreliable but recently had more fault then I like.

 

and that is NOT a common situation in the theatre / events world. If you're regularly needing to run complex cues like that then you should be using a specialist playback device not a PC / software based solution on ANY platform

 

it not a regular need but when the need comes up it should be able to run it.

 

The problems you've mentioned with Qlab sound more like problems with the software itself and codec issues rather than platform based so your solution wouldn't necessarily resolve them.

 

How would it not ... I wouldn't be using Qlab so the issue wouldn't occur.

 

 

But I am interesting in peoples current setup to see what your system setup are just to see a comparison

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[david.elsbury]

Looks like your mind is already made up, in which case good luck to you - let us know how you get on - but maybe no point in continuing this conversation as it appears you aren't (werent't?) after any advice (any more).

 

 

:)

David

[dbuckley]

Step one with Windows is a clean machine build, and especially no on-demand anti-virus checker! So don't go surfing the web once its built...

 

If that machine isn't playing back rock solid then its probably Deferred Procedure Call (DP) latency nightmares, download the checker from this page and check it out, and folow the advice on this page. If its bad, then my personal experience is that its the video driver.

[Shez]

The last one I Built Duel Intel I7 x940 2.13GHz with 16gb Ram and a 250Gb Solid Sate Drive running Win 7 Ultimate.

 

This is a clean install with all but the needed background services. Yet it lagged....

 

<snip>

 

But I am interesting in peoples current setup to see what your system setup are just to see a comparison

OK. My main playout machine is a Pentium III 1GHz with 512MB RAM, ordinary HDD, running XP. I've just tried running 20 stereo tracks simultaneously spread across three different outputs - no problems whatsoever. No lag, no glitches. I suspect it could handle more but I'm getting a headache listening to it!

 

Your hardware is more than capable; SCS is certainly capable. That leaves something in the setup of your system as being the problem.

[gruntus]

I always disable all network Devices so none of the ops can "accidently" put the machine on the internet.

 

 

 

If that machine isn't playing back rock solid then its probably Deferred Procedure Call (DP) latency nightmares, download the checker from this page and check it out, and folow the advice on this page. If its bad, then my personal experience is that its the video driver.

 

 

 

I know all about Dp latency from a old server issue thanks the checker will be handy not really ever thought to look up a checker :) unfortunately according to that I shouldn't have a problem but I will run it on the other machine and see what comes up thanks :)

 

 

OK. My main playout machine is a Pentium III 1GHz with 512MB RAM, ordinary HDD, running XP. I've just tried running 20 stereo tracks simultaneously spread across three different outputs - no problems whatsoever. No lag, no glitches. I suspect it could handle more but I'm getting a headache listening to it!

 

Your hardware is more than capable; SCS is certainly capable. That leaves something in the setup of your system as being the problem.

 

 

 

Thanks :) ok well what I do when I get a few hours I will wipe the machine again and I run some limits and see if I still get the issue.

[bigclive]

Is any version of Windows actually suitable for use with a solid state drive? Windows pecks at the hard drive continually in my experience and that is death for any solid state drive due to their limited write cycle capability.