Lighting Design

[SparkySteve]

is it not about how we , as designers, think??

 

in my opinion an English degree could have as much or as little use as a lighting design degree!

 

And English degree student will approach the text and think his/her ideas through in a completely different fashion that those of a lighting design student.

 

Just because the individual is doing a degree in said subject doesn't mean that their knowledge is limited to that of their degree subject! Every single person on this forum hass hobbies, interests and other stuff they may be passionate or not about but do it!

 

"A lighting design degree isn't about being taught how to design lighting" - Disuss!

[bruce]

As someone said earlier, a degree in ANY subject doesn't really mean very much these days - it certainly doesn't prove competency in anything other than the ability to pass exams....

 

The possession of a degree in a relevant subject MAY mean that the person is an exceptionaly able and talented individual. But it's no guarantee....

 

And this is coming from someone who works in a University

 

Bruce.

[timmath]

Lighting design is about ideas, the interpretation of ideas and the communication of ideas; it is not about technology. Therefore a philosophy or english degree is a better education for a lighting designer than a lighting design degree.

 

blah, blah, blah... all very good in concept but in reality

 

"Know your sh1t, stay in work"

 

regards

 

Tim

[robloxley]

As someone said earlier, a degree in ANY subject doesn't really mean very much these days - it certainly doesn't prove competency in anything other than the ability to pass exams....

And hence the meaningfullness of the degree depends on what the exams & course entails - I hope you'd agree that a Medicine degree means something...

[bruce]

And hence the meaningfullness of the degree depends on what the exams & course entails - I hope you'd agree that a Medicine degree means something...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It basically means that you are good at remembering things

 

It means that you may have some of the knowledge and ability to start on the road to becoming a doctor.

 

It doesn't mean that you are a good doctor.

 

B.

[lonfire]

hi,

a degree is well worth getting IMHO.. alot of young people of today think its not "cool" to work at school.. it seems to be "cool" to be stupid.. saying that degrees are useless is just continuing this cycle.. the government want more and more people to goto uni, the only way they can do this is to make courses easier which of course is just nonsense.. I firmly believe that not everybody is capable of getting a degree (if they keep the standards at a good level)..

 

I quite agree that some people come out of uni just having remembered what they have been told to get through and are just rubbish at what they do.. however if you get a degree educated person who is really interested and enjoys their subject then you want to keep hold of them as they will excel.. on the flip side there are many people that aren't degree educated that do very well..

 

so what I'm saying is either way, degree or no degree you will get some muppets and some people that excel, its just down to the individual and the route they have chosen.. I don't think that uni degree's compare to each other.. you can goto a red brick uni and get a degree and then go and do an equivalent degree at another uni (a non-established uni) and get a far higher grade for far less work.. for example I did a degree in computer science.. the uni I went to you had todo good third year projects, like some sort of AI project, or graphics (one guy did image stabilization for cameras on the sea cat and such).. these aren't easy things todo.. my mate who went to a different uni did a DVD database.. that sort of comparison is just a joke..

 

anyway.. enough ranting ;-)

 

in conclusion.. I think doing a degree is well worth the time IMHO, gets you into a mindset for learning, and self motivation.. but there are plenty of other ways to reach your goals..

 

rgds

chris

[bruce]

I don't think I said that degrees were useless - I certainly didn't mean to imply this! I would certainly recommend Higher Education as a sound foundation for many careers. What I am saying is that the possession of a degree is no proof of real ability. An indication, perhaps....

 

I've got a first class honours degree. In a subject that bears absolutlely no relevance to the area I work in today. I don't think I've ever had cause to use thermodynamics, quantum mechanics or nuclear physics in the real world.

 

So were those years of studying wasted? Of course not.

 

I don't use the specific material I learned when at University. But what I do use, every day, are the investigatory, logical and analytical skills which I learned and developed during that course. I got these while studying. But my degree doesn't PROVE I have them. All it proves is that I passed 5 written 3-hour exams.

 

University today is a completely different place from the places I studied at 20 years ago. In those days, perhaps less than 20% of the population went to University. In the 60s, it was much less. Today, it's approaching 50%.

 

So the number of people with degrees has increased dramatically. The percentage of firsts, seconds etc, haven't changed significantly. Does this mean that there are more "clever" people around, or that standards have been diluted? The Universities, of course, say standards have been maintained. But they would, wouldn't they.

 

In the past, University students were just that - students. They attended courses and sat exams. If they failed exams, they got kicked out.

 

But today, Universities are businesses, and students are fee-paying customers. There is a pressure not to fail students, as that's turning away business.

 

 

This is, of course, related to the "too many graduates and not enough plumbers" school of thought.

 

\end{rant}

 

Bruce.

[Csaba]

I belive that any degree aint gonna help you do lighting. There could be exeptions like photography for expl. That is just help, alone it means zer0.

 

I'd only like to go to a university, where people who acctually work in their field teach. Do you know one like this in lighting/stage management. I'd be more than interested to go to a college like that.

 

On the other hand for that you don't need a school. You can learn a lot more if you work with the ones that are doing this for decades, then in any college that teaches you the theory.

[lonfire]

I belive that any degree aint gonna help you do lighting. There could be exeptions like photography for expl. That is just help, alone it means zer0.

 

ermm.. why shouldn't a degree help you do lighting? if you know nothing about lighting then a degree in lighting would give you a sound basis to start off.. if you want to be good at it thats a different matter..

 

I'd only like to go to a university, where people who acctually work in their field teach. Do you know one like this in lighting/stage management. I'd be more than interested to go to a college like that.

 

there are a few courses that are like that I believe.. degrees are REALLY variable depending on where you go.. like my example of a computer science degree.. you need to have the right level of complexity as well as some real world knowledge, both in balance..

 

On the other hand for that you don't need a school. You can learn a lot more if you work with the ones that are doing this for decades, then in any college that teaches you the theory.

 

I agree that you can learn alot on the job, but I think both paths have there own merits and pitfalls and it really depends on the person, the course they do, or where they get their experience working.. but personaly I would look at somebodys education first then their experience.. I do think experience counts for alot, but I have seen too many people with tons of experience that are totaly useless!

 

rgds

chris

[Just Some Bloke]

Back in my day (20 years ago) there was a clear distinction between universities and colleges: colleges taught you how to do things and universities taught you the theory of how things were done. This meant that, if such courses existed (which they didn't) learning lighting design at college would have meant going up ladders whereas learning lighting design at university would have meant analysing the wavelengths of different lights (as an example). Now things are much more blurred and, as many people have said, it all depends which college or uni you go to as to what education you get. Some will be good, others bad, some will be theoretical others will be practical. Many people will not go to any form of further or higher education but will still be extremely good lighting designers.

 

All of this, however, is taking us away from the original poster's topic. This was brilliantly missed by Timmath (I'm not sure whether interntionally or unintentionally) when he said:

"Know your sh1t, stay in work"

The question is "what sh1t should you know"?

 

Light Console says that:

When I do undertake a design, I am not able to get into the mind of the characters, like some of my (English A Level) cohorts can.

which again misses the point, though a different point this time. It's the mind of the director you need to get into. It's OK saying "how do you want this lit?" but most directors will answer in a way that a lighting technician may not understand and that's where the designer comes in - translating, for example, "early evening mist forshadowing a tumult yet to come with the threat of death ever present" into "lots of backilight and shins with some soft focussed gobos with mix of several colours including... [etc.]" or whatever.

 

Just like choice of educational establishent is a matter of choice, so is what you light. I like subtelty so I light drama and dance. I also like musical theatre so I light that too. I'm not keen on using effects just for the sake of using effects so I don't light bands. Luckily, we're not all me!!

[Csaba]

In many things a degree matters a lot. Sadly this cannot be true in lighting, especially in Hungary, where I work. There is only one course in my country that teaches lighting, but it has no credit even here. I don't know that much about England or other countries.

 

.. you need to have the right level of complexity as well as some real world knowledge, both in balance

I fully agree, but as I wrote, I think it's not easy on this field.

 

I have seen too many people with tons of experience that are totaly useless!

So have I. I really would like to be more educated on what I like to do, but I wouldn't like to "waste" my time somewhere for only a degree.

 

Another thing with the unis is connections. If I wanted to work in England later in my life for sure I'd go to a college there. You may not get to know the best LD's right away, but for sure you'll get to know a lot of people in the industry there.

 

Csaba

[lonfire]

hi,

I suppose directors vary greatly.. I guess some know their colours and lighting, and others don't?

 

like you say its the ability to interpret what the director wants into lanterns/colours/gobos/focusing.. as I'm not in theatre type business thats something I haven't had experience of doing (had enough of directors changing their minds when lighting school plays all those years ago ;-))

 

rgds

chris

[Just Some Bloke]

hi,

I suppose directors vary greatly.. I guess some know their colours and lighting, and others don't?  ...

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Just yesterday I was plotting a show for an professional diector with many years' experience with D'Oyly Carte and various other opera and operetta companies who had asked for lots of strobing in one particular scene. I'd hired 2 strobes for the purpose and plotted them into those sections in which the cast were running around madly, taking them out when they stopped and help a pose for a while, then restoring as they moved, then out again... etc.

 

He looked at it and said "no no, you've got it the wrong way round. I wanted the strobing when they're standing still and not when they're moving". I had to explain that strobing requires movement to work properly. He said "well I wanted it to look like rain". I replied that, perhaps if he had explained this to me rather than just saying "I want strobing here" I could have hired a couple of rain projectors rather than strobes which have now gone unused.

 

Perfect case of the director trying to talk "lighting speak" when he should have just explained what he wanted it to look like. It annoys me when I can't achieve what the director wants because he didn't communicate correctly.

[sam.henderson]

Agreed it is particularly annoying when they do this, actually a pet hate of mine. I am all for them using the lingo if they know what they are going on about but if not its best just for them to explain.

 

Sam

[Simon Lewis]

It basically means that you are good at remembering things

 

A degree programme that relies purely on exams will be open to the charge that only the student's memory is being tested.

 

Most courses test student teaching and learning using a variety of methods, and would seek to determine whether superficial or deep learning processes had taken place. To do otherwise is poor pedagogy.

 

Although the usefulness of degree programmes may be a contentious issue for those in the entertainment industry, I would point out that most are educational rather than training courses. There is a world of difference between the two, yet many discussions tend to discuss degrees as if they were a 3 year version of a 3 day training course. The outcomes, are different, and are not all based on 'hands-on' skills! However, I will accept that in some cases the removal of the University / Polytechnic model has blurred this distinction..

 

 

 

With respect to Ken's post, I suspect there is a lot of truth in his maxim. The ability to understand and implement lighting technology appears to be a related but separate discipline from the ability to analyse and interpret what the script or director requires.

 

Ho hum... wonder what his next maxim will be ;-)

 

Simon