LED Battens

[jbrown96]

Hi

I am new to the forum and need some advice.

 

I have been asked by my local amateur dramatic group to try and find LED battens to replace their current halogen cyclorama lights that are at the end of their lives and that will also reduce their power consumption costs. They are looking at a budget of around £2500 and have 2 6.5m rigging bars to cover the rear cyclorama and a moveable front cloth, so am looking at around 12 1m long units.

 

So far I have been looking at a few option:

http://www.miltec.org.uk/lighting/LED%20Lighting/LED%20Batten%20%26%20Tapes/MTC-Batten2%2018x%208w%20RGBW%20LED%20batten.html

http://www.miltec.org.uk/lighting/LED%20Lighting/LED%20Batten%20%26%20Tapes/MTC-BATTEN%20-%20LED%20Colour%20Batten.html

http://www.chauvetlighting.co.uk/colordash-batten-quad-12.html

I realise that some of these my be out of price range but was wondering if anyone had either had experience with these before or had any ideas as to any units that would be suitable for my situation and reliable.

 

Sorry about the long post but wanted to provide as much info a possible.

 

Thanks

[musht]

>>halogen cyc lights at end of life?

 

Just wondering what the problems you are having with the cyc lights that a clean and possible re-wire is not going to solve?

 

Most linear halogen lamps will now have a lower wattage `energy saving` version now 500W is now 400W, instant 20% energy saving.

 

12m linear, but you don`t give a height. £2500 is probably not going to buy you satisfactory coverage, definitely not close to intensity achieved by your current halogens, apart from in deep blues.

 

The 18*8W Miltec batten may be a contender, apparently available for hire from several companies...

 

What is unfortunate about it, is the `cyc option` available for it is a barndoor to block light going out front.

 

More dedicated LED cyc units will use asymmetric reflectors or linear optics that create a `letter box` beam distribution.

 

Good LED cyc lites are still very expensive, good general purpose LED wash lites are now a commodity product, investing in LED product will probably open up some creative possibilities for you but wouldn't skip the halogens yet...

[adam2]

Replacing halogen with LED will save a lot of energy in percentage terms, but not that much in cash terms unless the hours of use are long.

Still possibly worth it though if you can find suitable equipment within your budget.

 

Electricity is liable to get more expensive, so the financial saving from LED lighting is not fixed per year but likely to increase in years to come.

The halogen lamps are cheap, but do cost money, which will also be saved by going LED.

 

Another reason to go LED is when the available power is a constraint.

If only 20KW is available, and the present rig uses the full 20KW, then replacing 8KW of halogen with 1KW of LED will free up 7KW for additional lanterns.

Spending say £5,000 on LED lighting might in some cases save spending more than £5,000 on an electrical upgrade.

[jbrown96]

The units were received by us third hand after a very tough life a few years ago and are in a state of extreme disrepair now. Our main lighting tech also wants the flexibility that the LED units will give him in the effect he can do with them and in the fact that the light produced will be relatively cool. Drop of cyc and cloth are approx 4-5m.

 

 

>>halogen cyc lights at end of life?

 

Just wondering what the problems you are having with the cyc lights that a clean and possible re-wire is not going to solve?

 

Most linear halogen lamps will now have a lower wattage `energy saving` version now 500W is now 400W, instant 20% energy saving.

 

12m linear, but you don`t give a height. £2500 is probably not going to buy you satisfactory coverage, definitely not close to intensity achieved by your current halogens, apart from in deep blues.

 

The 18*8W Miltec batten may be a contender, apparently available for hire from several companies...

 

What is unfortunate about it, is the `cyc option` available for it is a barndoor to block light going out front.

 

More dedicated LED cyc units will use asymmetric reflectors or linear optics that create a `letter box` beam distribution.

 

Good LED cyc lites are still very expensive, good general purpose LED wash lites are now a commodity product, investing in LED product will probably open up some creative possibilities for you but wouldn't skip the halogens yet...

[timsabre]

I'm afraid you need to spend a lot more than that to light a cyc that size with LED.

 

The trouble with all the cheaper batten units is that they have quite narrow beam angle. The only way to light a cyc would be either to put them very close and skim the surface or put them a long way away (where it is usually impossible to light the whole cyc without various things getting in the way).

 

If you put them close you need them butted end to end or you get gaps in the light, and the cyc will be much brighter at the top than the bottom.

 

This is a topic which has come up quite a lot recently, if you google for "led batten site:blue-room.org.uk" then you'll see some of the other discussions. (Or you could try the search box above but it doesn't seem to work very well)

 

 

Miltec list a load of hire companies who stock that 18W batten, why not hire a couple and have a play about with them? Then you will know for sure.

[Brian]

BOFP sums...

 

£2500 buys you 12,500 units of electricity.

You have (say) 10 x 500W cyc units. So that's 5kW.

So you can run your halogen units for 2,500 hours for the money you have available.

Lets say you run them at full for 4 hours a day.

So you can run them for 625 days for that money.

Let's assume the group does 2 x plotting rehearsals, 2 x technical rehearsal, 1 x dress rehearsal, 7 x performances.

So you can do 52 performance for that money.

Let's say they put on 5 performances a year.

So the payback period is over 10 years. By which time the LED units will be in the scrap heap because they won't last that long.

[paulears]

All is clear now.

Our main lighting tech also wants the flexibility that the LED units will give him in the effect he can do with them.

This is quite a different question now - all the rubbish about saving money, and saving the planet out of the way.

 

If your hanging possibilities can give you a bit of distance for the narrow angles to spead, then if you buy 18, and fabricated something to let you stack them 3 high, then you might well be able to wash the cyc with 18 areas, and adjust the relative brightness to even it up, and maybe a little frost to even it up? Or maybe a row as groundrows at the bottom for crossing? Your old floods which could easily be patched up for a tiny amount compared to the £2500 - would in tints be brighter, but the nice deep reds and blues could easily make up for it.

 

LED for green and electricity reasons look good on paper, but the reality is that it will take a very long time to recover two and a half grand from savings - so use this as the official reason, and go LED for what they can do for you. The first time, with no notice, somebody asks for the Irish flag, and you can give it to them in a few button presses, it was worth it.

 

I tried our 7 of our 12 varytec battens (3x3) blocks of RGB on the stage edge, and discovered at 10m from the cyc, how bright they really are. The cyc is 4m tall, and at 10m, the light is even, and bright. I think with maybe 2m between cloth and the hanging bar, you should be able to get something useful. However - if you do buy lots they're so useful you will almost certainly keep de-rigging them and using them elsewhere. We have 4 or 6 nearly permanently fitted vertically as side light - the narrow spread is great for music and dance.

[rossmck]

I know a few places that have used the Chauvet COLORado Batten 72 Tour or the corresponding Showtec units (CYC 2000) which are RGBWA.

 

Don't assume that you need 12 to cover 12m of bar, depending on the distance from the cyc you can often leave a reasonable gap between the units - for instance the PLCYC units from Philips are intended to be used on 1.2m centres) although without knowing the size of the cyc and the distance from it to the hanging position it's difficult to advise on an appropriate solution.

 

[in the interests of full disclosure I am associated with a company which sells the aforementioned products]

[Ken Coker]

I'm afraid you need to spend a lot more than that to light a cyc that size with LED.

 

I loathe tungsten, but with that budget you're wasting your time - and if you want to use LEDs to their maximum, have you got the desk channels/universes?

Just been Prod LX for a tour where we ######ed around with LED battens for ages and then went and bought some Coda 4s in a PRG sale.

http://www.usedlighting.co.uk - might be a calling point, but other suppliers are available.

 

KC

 

 

[jbrown96]

Thanks for all the advice, I will take this back to our main lighting tech and see what he say.

[LXbydesign]

Yup.

 

I remember those on one of your gigs a while back at The Dorchester. Brilliant light output. Smooth control and light / manageable fixture to move around.

 

Used some Chroma Color Force ones the other day over at Excel. The 1.2m batterns were really heavy. Couldn't believe the weight when first lifted out of the case. - but the little CF 12's are nice though.