ETC vs Chamsys

[trussmonkee]

Hi,

sorry for another which desk thread but I'm looking for as many opinions as possible

We are looking to replace an aging Strand 520i in a receiving venue that has a summer festival, the two current main contenders are ETC ION and Chamsys MagicQ pro 2010, we have demoed the chamsys and will soon be doing the same with the ION, but I am interested to see what the community think.

 

a few pros and cons that I can think of are:

 

Huge amount more outputs with the Chamsys

backup is cheap and easy with the Chamsys

more shows tour with a disk for the ION

more operators will be familier with the ION

Chamsys is a better busking desk

command line is easier on the ION

Chamsys can cope with media servers easily

More physical outputs on the Chamsys

both network track

the riggers remote app is free for the chamsys and 35 quid on the ion

 

basically any comments and opinions are welcome as long as they are constructive as I know there is a bit of the PC vs MAC about this, I'm just trying to build a big picture

many thanks all

Jim

[smalljoshua]

What is the venue? Do you need a load of busking? Is the ability to control media servers important?

 

For me, I use Chamsys as one week I'm lighting theatre and the next I'm using it in a Fashion show with 2 media servers and 12 layers of video on each! It's the most flexible system I've used to date. Of course, the soon to be released update to the Martin MPC software has me quite interested so don't discount it!

 

Josh

[richard]

If you recieve a lot of shows that don't tour a desk then I would suggest ion all the way - as you say above most people know how to use the things, and will often tour a disk instead of a desk.

 

If however you do a lot of busking and music stuff then the ion isn't great, and it can be a bit clunky for a lot of movers, but you could hire something in for those periods if required.

[mark_s]

There's a reason that the Eos platform has become the de-facto replacement for the 500 Series and standard (or as close as you'll get these days) for theatre. Having said that, I wouldn't touch it with a 10' barge pole for anything other than theatre, so as Richard mentions it depends on who you have coming in and what you'll be using it with. MagicQ is my desk of choice for nigh on everything I do - but I have the luxury of being able to spec the correct tool for the job every time. I'd be reluctant to recommend MagicQ for your situation because, while it is easy enough to get along with and program, it does present that extra 'wtf?' factor to your potentially constantly changing end user.

[Judge]

++ to what Mark just said. Ion is THE 520i replacement and for good reason, and any theatre LD will know how to use one. That has to be the best choice, however I suggest you get one of those and a ChamSys PC wing as well. For an extra grand or so you then have both systems so you can offer people the choice as well as being able to work with media servers, movers and LEDs which are really not strong areas for Ions. Get a cheap dedicated PC to run it and see how you get on. You can add to this system as you go if it becomes useful, such as adding a touch screen or two.

[ianknight]

@trussmonkee - For my two penn'orth, the answer is simple... You pick the desk that suits YOU - ultimately you and the venue will be living with the thing most of the year. If it becomes super critical for the festival to have an Ion around then hire one but don't let a 6 week period (or however long) out of 52 weeks sway your decision.

 

I have to be honest and say from some of the whining I hear from one of our customers about the 'lovely' ION they bought (not from us I hasten to add - we suggested and demo'd ORB) - you're still going to have to mess about redoing the patches for any show bought in, if it's a small touring company then they're just as likely to bring a Jester, a LeapFrog stick or a Limelight show so you don't really gain much.

 

If it were me - and I do have a venue to worry about for lighting desks away from my day job - I'd be looking to buy a console that had the features I wanted and would make my life easier and not some lighting technician who might never come near the place.

[Simmo]

After reading a lot of these treads over the last year, there's a lot of biased on these forums towards Chamsys, so you're going to get more people on here saying go with Chamsys.

 

You're doing the right thing by getting demos of each product but make sure you lead the demo by asking about things do need to do for the way you need to work.

 

Chamsys may have more outputs but ETC feel if you need this many outputs you should have a Gio, Eos or Eos Ti. I would recommend a touch screen if you go for an Ion.

If you look on some US forums ETC have confirmed they will be releasing a PC and Mac version of Eos Family software later in the year.

Chamsys better at 'busking', maybe, maybe not I've not used one but make sure in your Ion demo you ask how you'd 'busk' in the way you need. ETC are also reworking some live controls, again for later in the year.

Eos ran 128 media server layers on the opening of the Olympics so I think it should be ok there!

The £35 from the ETC app goes to charity so you haven't got every 'lighting enthusiastic' trying to connect to your network.

 

Good luck.

 

Nick

[dbuckley]

After reading a lot of these treads over the last year, there's a lot of biased on these forums towards Chamsys, so you're going to get more people on here saying go with Chamsys.

 

No. Surely not.

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-tVrEl3J2GjE/UPONfX-rQLI/AAAAAAAAFdQ/CWx3xqK-cco/s320/sheldon-sarcasm.png

[GridGirl]

Last job we replaced an old 520 with an Ion and never looked back - it was absolutely the right desk for us, however that was a producing house, not a receiving house. Sydney Opera House is all Eos/Ion these days, and it is very much a receiving house.

[gareth]

The most important thing is to demo both options - extensively, for a few days, not just a 30-minute play on each one - and decide which suits you, your venue and your operators best. HOWEVER - as Buxton Opera House is a receiving house, you need to give at least some consideration to the needs of visiting companies, and from that point of view an Ion is streets ahead. In the same way that, a few years ago, most touring productions who weren't touring their own desk would turn up with a Strand 500-series show disk, nowadays they're more likely to turn up with an Eos/Gio/Ion file than with anything else.

 

Those who've said that Ions aren't so good at busking as MQs are correct - but that's looking at it from the point of view of busking with a large rig of multi-parameter fixtures. From the point of view of a theatre with a largely generic rig (an assumption, I know - tell me if I'm wrong in the context of BOH!) an Ion with a 2x20 fader wing and a couple of touchscreens, with a bit of thought put into how you populate your screens with useful stuff, is pretty much just as buskable as an MQ100 (especially now that magic sheets have arrived with v2).

 

To give this post some context, I work in a venue which owns five ETC desks, and I own a MagciQ PC-based system, so I have plenty of direct hands-on experience of both of these options - and if I was in your shoes making this choice between the two options you're looking at in this particular scenario, Ion (with a fader wing - essential) would win every time.

 

(By the way, do you still have the stream running through the trap room at the opera house? That's the thing that really sticks in my mind from when I last toured into there many years ago!)

[sbrebo]

With Jands Vista, Chamsys MagicQ, in my opinion is one of the new generation console that follow the directives given by MA Lighting GrandMa (same software for all consoles and versions for pc and mac) but at a more affordable price that grows if, for example, you want to add a SMTPE module or other not included as standard.

I wrote a post about it on http://www.walterlutzu.it/wordpress/chamsys-magicq-2/

[paulears]

If you looked around PLASA this year, there are even more lighting controls it seems, making choices harder. Gareth make the very good point that in a receiving house, being able to read your visiting companies files makes life much easier for everyone - and being honest, theatre use is VERY different from what an owner/LD will be doing with their own desk on a complex mega budget music gig. For many theatres - working to riders that ask for a few colours as a wash and maybe a few specials and the ability to project a B size gobo - the desk is not that important. Almost all of them can do the job. In these cases, it's personal preference. When we all used 500/300 series controls everybody knew that the reality was they weren't really very clever controls at all, and had plenty of annoyances - BUT - they were a standard, which was actually a rather low standard. This never seemed to matter. Very few shows had requirements they couldn't manage, and if their needs were very particular, they brought a control with them. MagicQ is neat and tidy, and expandable, so it's easy to see why we like it. It doesn't make it best for everything.

[IRW]

Having worked in venue that acted as both a producing and receiving house, and also the venue in question (Hi Jim!), I'd strongly recommend an Ion. I used a 520i in one of my old venues doing these sort of shows, and through having a very in depth knowledge of the software, found all sort of tricks to turn it into a 'busking' desk, as I'm sure many others in other venues did.

Since then, I moved to another (educational) venue, where I replaced an ETC Smartfade with an Ion, and although it took a little time to find them, I slowly started working out how to do all my old tricks, and could now confidently busk on an Ion almost as quickly as I could on a 520i. (For what it's worth, the tricks I find involve setting the desks up in an almost Pearl kind of manner- if anyone doesn't believe it can be done, go and read the manual more :P ).

From what I have seen, the Opera House attracts a lot of visiting theatre technicians through the opera festival season, and as others have said, the EOS range is pretty much the de-facto standard for theatres, and, despite the various syntax differences, a range which I managed to pick up very quickly transferring from a Strand background, and, more to the point, a range which my 13-18 year old students picked up astonishingly quickly thanks to ETC's excellent tutorials. The Opera House has a lot of staff who are now familiar with their old 520, so this should be something to be considered in a big way.

 

To the riggers remote point- If you're spending X thousand pounds on a lighting console, I really wouldn't be swayed by a mere £35 for the riggers remote application. If you're clever, you can make your own anyway ;) (Although I hasten to add I have bought the ETC app as it's only fair to support the good causes!)

 

If there's any points you're not sure about, if you get one on demo for a few weeks, I'd be happy to pop over and say hello/show you how to achieve anything you want to know :)

 

Ian

[the kid]

MY old boss got a orb because he liked the simplicity of it, and to be fair once I spent 2 hours programming on it it was really very nice to play with to busk and make stacks with.

[jonhole]

MY old boss got a orb because he liked the simplicity of it, and to be fair once I spent 2 hours programming on it it was really very nice to play with to busk and make stacks with.

We'd happily come and visit Jim with an ORB XF for a demo - just drop me a message. We've incorporated a lot of the 500 Series syntax and working methodology to ease the transition, and support ASCII showfiles for receiving houses. 60 Multi Functional Faders make it very easy to busk on, or run multiple cue stack on, too!