Safety chains on lanterns

[timmiddleton]

hi

 

I'm a violinist and I'm playing for a show in a school this week. I'm not involved with the lighting and sound at all but I've noticed the lanterns they have on T-bars don't have safety chains on. We open the show tomorrow so I'd like to warn them if they have just forgotten to do it, but on the other hand I don't know whether you legally need chains for T-bars.

 

thanks

Tim

 

PS: don't know what company it is doing sound & lights but the monitoring for the singers on stage is crap!!

[Mr.Si]

Wo! I'm a soundie, so don't know either. But that sounds really dodgy!

 

I've always thought it was a legal requirement for health and safety! Esp if they use a round t-bar with Hook-Clamps.

 

Though if they're directly attached to a t-bar with a nut and bolt maybe they don't?

[timmiddleton]

yeh thats a good point

 

I think most, if not all, are directly bolted on. I don't know if that changes things though!

[paulears]

This has been covered before.

 

The crucial thing is simply is the rig less safe without the chains? Most T-bars don't have the fittings to attach a chain to. Looping them over the top bar, as seen quite often, doesn't stop them sliding off. If you can't secure them, then they don't serve a purpose. Most stands are far more dangerous from the point of view of tip-over. I'd be more interested in seeing some for of protection for this, rather than insistence on a chain which may, or may not make the thing safer. Risk Assessment time again......

[The Giant with Laser Eyes]

Just I've often seen t-bars lacking safety chains, at low heights.

Id generally chain everything, its just safer...

 

I can remember a occasion when I was derigging a tricky 2kw FX wheel light on the gantry, and the bar was a temporary one so it was under the gantry effectively meaning I couldn't quite see what I was doing... Turned out the lights clamp was at a angle and as soon as I unbolted it. It happened to fall off! Very very lucky there was a safety chain on it.

 

Another thing I've always heard is you don't need safety chains on stage, only over the auditorium.

[Shaun Foster]

Another thing I've always heard is you don't need safety chains on stage, only over the auditorium.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I know the cast are expendable but what about the crew? Seriously though, if they weren't needed over the stage why would they be needed FOH?

 

Or have I misunderstood?

[broadcast_techie]

On a similar note...

A quick peak in my church (I don't get to that often) revealed that one on our profiles (on a interestingly thin bracket screwed to the wall) was chained to the halogen flood above - so if one falls it could potenially pull the other one down...

 

also with the same setup on the opposite side: the chain is just around the bracket and the wall bracket.

 

I think this is possibly a case of safer WITHOUT chains!

 

Kris

[Shaun Foster]

When safetying lanterns on T-Bars I usually go through 2 lanterns and around the bar with 1 chain. My reason being that the bar should take most of the force and the second lantern will stop the chain/wire slipping off the end. Is this bad practice?

[nickb12345]

When safetying lanterns on T-Bars I usually go through 2 lanterns and around the bar with 1 chain. My reason being that the bar should take most of the force and the second lantern will stop the chain/wire slipping off the end. Is this bad practice?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Sounds like a good idea, the only problem would be if both lanterns fell at the same time (more chance of pigs flying) would the chain take the weight of both?

 

 

Nick

[propmonkey]

I usually say screw it at short heights(6 to 10ft) the t bar trees have a much great chance of falling over than an instrument coming off. if I do use them I wrap the safty chain around the t and both instruments.

[bruce]

So should we be running a "safety chain" of sorts from the T-bar to a mounting on an adjacent wall, or something, to minimise the risk of the stand toppling?

 

Assuming there's something close by to tie it to.....

 

Bruce.

[audio]

I always work to the principal that if its above shoulder height, then it needs a saftey. On T bars I chain two lanterns and the bar together, but use both saftey chains incase both fall.

We have made some brackets to fit our T bars which a stage weight fits onto, to stop the stands falling, as all the childen at school play with them, and if we aren't there to supervise there is no real way to stop it.

[IainQuinn]

Post removed by poster.

 

The views expressed in this post are my own and are not representative of my employer.

 

Many Thanks,

 

Iain Quinn

[Guest lightnix]

I've always worked on the basis that the "rules" say every hung lantern must have a "secondary means of suspension" and saftied (sic) accordingly.

 

As discussed many times before, safety chains are no longer acceptable because they are not rated for load bearing purposes. The only "legal" solution these days, AFAIK, is a properly rated steel wire bond and any hung lantern should have one, regardless of what it is hung on.

 

Yes, I know that a lantern can slide off the end of a T-bar, but the chances are that it won't, whereas it will definitely fall if the bolt fails and there is no safety to catch it. Putting safties on lanterns hung from T-bars may not eliminate the risk, but they reduce it. Anyway, it's an easy matter to prevent sliding off from happening by the simple addition of a physical barrier, such as a scaff clamp at the ends of the bar. Again, it may not completely eliminate the risk, but it can certainly reduce / minimise it.

 

OK, I know that "bolts don't fail", but it's much simpler to cover yourself by putting safties on everything. I hate using stands for lighting, they are so top heavy and frequently end up being overloaded. My own preferred solution where stands have to be used, is to use two with a length of scaff / truss between them. I've not done any calculations to back up this theory, but I believe from experience that this arrangement makes for a far more stable structure, which is less likely to be knocked over and which eliminates the risk of lamps sliding off the bar, in the unlikely event that a bolt should fail.

 

Please feel free to shoot this unquantified solution down in flames

[Alec]

As discussed many times before, safety chains are no longer acceptable because they are not rated for load bearing purposes.  The only "legal" solution these days, AFAIK, is a properly rated steel wire bond and any hung lantern should have one, regardless of what it is hung on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Our recent church installation received criticism recently for not having safety chains on any of the lamps. This confused me for a while, until I clicked that the concerned individual had been looking for safety *chains* and hadn't spotted the *wire bonds* applied to each lantern. I then had to explain exactly the issue you state above.

 

As in many fields, a little or outdated knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

 

But back to the original topic - I'm with the others, apply a safety bond to everything, as it's never going to reduce the safety. But use common sense to assess the risk and determine if there are additional safety measures to take, and to ensure that bonds are applied in the manner that will be most effective.