Side rails on temporary staging

[d.breeze]

Hello

 

I own a book that would tell me the answer, but of course I am in the office and the book is at home. So does anyone know off hand, have a book available, or know a website where I could look this up?

 

Is there a certain height at which temporary staging is required have side rails fitted? I know ideally you should fit them whenever/wherever possible but I need to know if it is ever required to be done and at which height this occurs. Please don't reply with things relating to individual, site specific risk assessments, all of that will be catered for I just want to know if any BSEN or ISO numbers relating to temporary demountable strucutres require side rails on staging.

 

Many thanks

[Nicktaylor]

Is this part of a set, or a structure for presentations. Its not as cut and dried as to say the platform is 2m high so MUST have railings all round.

[d.breeze]

Stage extension for an already existing pros-arch style stage. Stage extension is lite deck, 8ft deep, 24ft wide and approx 4ft high.

[Nicktaylor]

The reason I asked was that most stages already have a height issue along the front into an orchestra pit. I know you talked about Risk Assessment etc so it really comes down to that. I have had a look at my HSE book and cannot find a definitive rule except for assess! If I were doing as you are I would make sure all edges are white marked, all cast are happy and briefed about keeping away from edges. I dont like catwalk type stages but they are used a lot in the amateur world. A local group did Jesus Christ Superstar a few years ago and the high parts of the stage where maybe eight feet up. I dont believe there was a front rail just a wall across the back. You might find your local council will be able to help, plus they might have to sign off anyway, whatever we say here. I am interested in the outcome for future reference. By the way the reason I asked my previous question was, cast can be briefed and practice, someone coming up fo an award will probably step on to the stage the first time to receive it.

I think 4' high not an issue but I would white tape all edges and brief cast

[d.breeze]

The reason I asked was that most stages already have a height issue along the front into an orchestra pit.

 

No orchestra pit so not an issue, it is just the 4ft down to the stalls.

 

I know you talked about Risk Assessment etc so it really comes down to that. I have had a look at my HSE book and cannot find a definitive rule except for assess! If I were doing as you are I would make sure all edges are white marked, all cast are happy and briefed about keeping away from edges.

 

If I cannot find a definitive height at which is required the risk assessment will probably advise that they are used for performances but can be removed IF certain criteria are met; such as marking the edges and briefing all cast & crew.

 

I dont like catwalk type stages but they are used a lot in the amateur world. A local group did Jesus Christ Superstar a few years ago and the high parts of the stage where maybe eight feet up. I dont believe there was a front rail just a wall across the back.

 

Yes catwalk stages occasionally give me the shivers too as I've seen some incredibly dodgy ones in my time. Thankfully this is just a simple full width 8ft extension. However the staging has been bough with amateurs in mind as this particular venue is very frequently hired by am-dram groups who have a history of building death traps in front of the stage so we have invested in proper staging to prevent this from happening in the future.

 

You might find your local council will be able to help, plus they might have to sign off anyway, whatever we say here. I am interested in the outcome for future reference.

 

This is for a local council venue and I am trying to get it signed off ;) The staging was bought without fully considering all the implications and it was only when I took delivery of it and started asking awkward questions did cracks in the decisions start to appear.

[J Pearce]

Once you are not stood on the floor you are working at height. When working at height all reasonable precautions must be taken to prevent a fall.

 

Your interpretation of 'reasonable' is the key thing here.

[adamharman]

 

Thankfully this is just a simple full width 8ft extension. However the staging has been bough with amateurs in mind as this particular venue is very frequently hired by am-dram groups who have a history of building death traps in front of the stage so we have invested in proper staging to prevent this from happening in the future.

 

 

So presumably you already have a 4ft drop from the front of the permanent stage and you're just moving it forward by 8 feet? Does that actually change anything as far as handrails are concerned? It's still a 4ft drop from the front of the stage however deep the stage is, so if the previous risk assessment didn't recommend handrails then surely that still applies?

[kerry davies]

From your posts I think you want a figure below which the RA allows you to forget about handrails.

 

That is getting things backwards. The RA determines whether you need handrails on a six inch high stage, not that anything above "X" inches demands a handrail. You create that RA so you decide at which height handrails are required and what conditions need to be met when they are or are not used.

 

You seem to have the right ideas but the RA will need to consider usage such that amateurs have more stringent conditions than professionals and public access has yet more stringent parameters. Do check if the council have an opinion but most are reactive rather than proactive with things like this and you may find yourself determining policy for temporary stages as the resident "expert".

 

To add; Adam has a point though the sides of the "thrust" is where the difficulties may arise.

[d.breeze]

Once you are not stood on the floor you are working at height. When working at height all reasonable precautions must be taken to prevent a fall.

 

Your interpretation of 'reasonable' is the key thing here.

 

Correct! But there are regs determining the loads the staging must be able to take and manufacturers' guinelines concerning at what height you should use cross bracing on the legs and I cannot remember if there are regs or guidelines concerning side rails or if it is simply a case of assessing each instance and taking said reasonable precautions.

 

 

Thankfully this is just a simple full width 8ft extension. However the staging has been bough with amateurs in mind as this particular venue is very frequently hired by am-dram groups who have a history of building death traps in front of the stage so we have invested in proper staging to prevent this from happening in the future.

 

 

So presumably you already have a 4ft drop from the front of the permanent stage and you're just moving it forward by 8 feet? Does that actually change anything as far as handrails are concerned? It's still a 4ft drop from the front of the stage however deep the stage is, so if the previous risk assessment didn't recommend handrails then surely that still applies?

 

Yes the drop at the front is no different, but because the extension now comes out from the pros there is a 4ft drop either side of the stage which has never existed before. Someone raised the questions of side rails and I am attempting to persue it. If I cannot find regs/guidelines I will simply factor it into a risk assessment as with any other situation.

[J Pearce]

There are regs that advise the strength and height and infill of handrails for use in public areas, which you'd be foolish to not at least look at if you decided to use handrails, but nothing for onstage.

[d.breeze]

From your posts I think you want a figure below which the RA allows you to forget about handrails.

 

That is getting things backwards. The RA determines whether you need handrails on a six inch high stage, not that anything above "X" inches demands a handrail. You create that RA so you decide at which height handrails are required and what conditions need to be met when they are or are not used.

 

Nope that is not my view point. I want to see if there is a height at which regulations or manufacturers' guidelines insist that rails are used at the side of the stage so that I can include it in the RA. I don't want to be in the position where the RA states they are not needed and then later on someone falls off and someone points out regs/guidelines that contradict the original RA. Just covering my arse.

 

Also I predict that certain users of the building will complain about sight lines if side rails are in place. If I can produce guidance from HSE or the manufacturer stating they have to be there then they cannot contest. But if those guidelines don't exist I can point them in the direction of the RA which would set-out other measures to be put in place for using the stage with out side rails.

 

You seem to have the right ideas but the RA will need to consider usage such that amateurs have more stringent conditions than professionals and public access has yet more stringent parameters. Do check if the council have an opinion but most are reactive rather than proactive with things like this and you may find yourself determining policy for temporary stages as the resident "expert".

 

To add; Adam has a point though the sides of the "thrust" is where the difficulties may arise.

 

Definitely a point that I am strongly considering. The am-dram users are much more troublesome than the pros. And yes there is definitely a reactive rather and proactive culture here and I am desperately trying to change that!

 

There are regs that advise the strength and height and infill of handrails for use in public areas, which you'd be foolish to not at least look at if you decided to use handrails, but nothing for onstage.

 

Do you have access to these regs? Can you point me in the right direction?

[J Pearce]

It's in the yellow book by ABTT. BS6180:1999 "Barriers in and about buildings - Code of practice may also be of interest.

 

From memory handrails should be between 900-1200mm high, capable of holding 1.5kN/m at the upper edge and for public areas should not be penetrable by a sphere of diameter 100mm.

Don't quote me though!

[burgerlel]

As far as im aware there are no hard and fast rules about handrails on temporary stages. With the working at height regs they leave it up to you to find out what is reasonable. With this in mind we decided to use ExCeL as our standard,they ask for handrail on anything higher then 1ft6in. However if you are building a stage at say 4ft but there is audience on 3 sides they will not ask for handrail on those sides this also applies to thrusts and catwalks. With this in mind our company police is that anything over 1ft6in gets handrail it may or may not be overkill and I know we have lost work as our quotes are higher then other companies who polices seem to be they leave it up to the client to decide.

[kerry davies]

Hang on there Jon, since Steeldeck themselves refer people to the IStructE guide on TDS it is under those parameters that temporary staging should be managed, not ones that refer to permanent structures such as theatres.

 

Handrails should be provided to all edges of a stage, except the edge facing the audience, whenever possible. BS EN 12810-1:200310.7 gives two loading criteria for handrails used in work areas only, such as stages and access platforms, where the loads are applied in the most severe location: A limiting deflection of 35mm under a 0.3kN point load applied horizontally; and no breaking or deflection more than 300mm at any point under a 1.25kN point load applied vertically.

HOWEVER!!!!

There are also several standards for guardrails where there is public access and these are under the section on seating stands (Pp66-68, I think). Some of these standards are met by proprietary handrails from the manufacturer, some are not.

 

Burger has decided to go with a blanket approach stipulated by a major client, Damian is seeking advice on one specific venue with a variety of uses so none of us can give definitive answers. The newly hazardous areas which the staging introduces, side edges of the temporary structure and how he deals with that, is dependent on many factors all of which lead to some form of compromise. I would think of it as a thrust and act accordingly.

 

I do miss the gas footlights. That learned 'em when the crinolines went up in flames. ;)

[J Pearce]

I don't disagree Kerry. The permanent structures regs however are more stringent, and therefore cover both, especially where we use TDS kit out front or for semi permanent setups.