Vraicbeard Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Hope this in the correct area. Our Model D Steinway travels between a separate side stage and our main stage for use, accross 2 heavyly built wooden deck and legs affair which we sack truck to positon and two man lift into postion, each time we move the piano. We have asked a professional Structural engineer who is a friend of the concert hall, to see if he can come up with a more elegent and storage space efficent solution. He has asked me to get hold of the load of each leg/ point weighting. I have written to Steinway twice now, but I wonder if this is information they would give out. Regards,VB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathanhill Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Hope this in the correct area. Our Model D Steinway travels between a separate side stage and our main stage for use, accross 2 heavyly built wooden deck and legs affair which we sack truck to positon and two man lift into postion, each time we move the piano. We have asked a professional Structural engineer who is a friend of the concert hall, to see if he can come up with a more elegent and storage space efficent solution. He has asked me to get hold of the load of each leg/ point weighting. I have written to Steinway twice now, but I wonder if this is information they would give out. Regards,VB The nett weight of a Model D is 480kg, from the Steinway website: http://www.steinway.co.uk/pianos/steinway/grand/model-d/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vraicbeard Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 The nett weight of a Model D is 480kg, from the Steinway website: http://www.steinway..../grand/model-d/ Thanks Jonathan, I'd seen that but I guess the weight is distributed differently around the three legs, otherwise the engineer could just divide the total weight of 450 kg by three? I'm puzzled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 The nett weight of a Model D is 480kg, from the Steinway website:Thanks Jonathan, I'd seen that but I guess the weight is distributed differently around the three legs, otherwise the engineer could just divide the total weight of 450 kg by three? I'm puzzled. Well you could work on a worst case of 480kg per leg. That's a fairly small point load for a stage surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vraicbeard Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 The nett weight of a Model D is 480kg, from the Steinway website:Thanks Jonathan, I'd seen that but I guess the weight is distributed differently around the three legs, otherwise the engineer could just divide the total weight of 450 kg by three? I'm puzzled. Well you could work on a worst case of 480kg per leg. That's a fairly small point load for a stage surface. Ok, thank you - better to over engineered than unsafe. I am interested to learn more around the subject, my physics/maths is shocking :( The nett weight of a Model D is 480kg, from the Steinway website: http://www.steinway..../grand/model-d/ Thanks Jonathan, I'd seen that but I guess the weight is distributed differently around the three legs, otherwise the engineer could just divide the total weight of 450 kg by three? I'm puzzled. Ah this doesn't help either!: Steinway.com says net weight: 450kg Steinway.co.uk says net weight: 480kg http://www.steinway..../grand/model-d/ http://www.steinway..../grand/model-d/ I guess the extra weight is to make us brits left hand drive models.:P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 480kg ... That's a fairly small point load for a stage surface. I'm wrong there, steeldeck for example has a maximum point loading of 1kN which is roughly 100kg. 480kg / 4.8kN is quite a large point force for a floating wooden surface. If the weight in the piano was perfectly evenly distributed, you could divide the 4.8kN by 3. But it won't be - and without measuring it or obtaining some figures from the manufacturer, you would be prudent to assume the worst case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vraicbeard Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 480kg ... That's a fairly small point load for a stage surface. I'm wrong there, steeldeck for example has a maximum point loading of 1kN which is roughly 100kg. 480kg / 4.8kN is quite a large point force for a floating wooden surface. If the weight in the piano was perfectly evenly distributed, you could divide the 4.8kN by 3. But it won't be - and without measuring it or obtaining some figures from the manufacturer, you would be prudent to assume the worst case. Ahhh I see! You have shown me the misunderstanding inherant in my original question. So: staging is made to have a maximum point loading (measure in kN)Distrubution of weight is what I need from the manufacturer.lightbulb moment!Many Thanks Tim,VB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Borrow some industrial scales? Weigh each leg individually? FWIW most of the weight will be up the keyboard end, from having one fall on me once! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImagineerTom Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I'm slightly confused at the over-complication going on here. If you're looking for a gadget to move the piano then there's plenty of "off the shelf" piano moving gadgets ready to use. If you need to make a specific bridge to get between these two raised platforms it wouldn't take a structural engineer (or frankly a normal engineer or welder) 5 mins to work out the strength needed and put together a basic design that will be structurally sound - the fact you're currently doing it with wooden rostra blocks tells us that the point loads involved aren't substantial; if it doesn't break wood it's not going to break metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 FWIW most of the weight will be up the keyboard end, from having one fall on me once! Always with the scientific approach Kerry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 ...it wouldn't take a structural engineer (or frankly a normal engineer or welder) 5 mins to work out the strength needed and put together a basic design that will be structurally sound - the fact you're currently doing it with wooden rostra blocks tells us that the point loads involved aren't substantial; if it doesn't break wood it's not going to break metal. Er, that is exactly what he is doing, but unless you know the loading being exerted by the piano you can't work out the strength needed. Which is what he was trying to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImagineerTom Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 The answer to "what's the weight of a steinway D grand piano" is the top answer on google. Knowing the precise weight distribution on the legs isn't terribly relevant* other than to ensure that whatever it is you're building won't puncture through your surface material. From a design point of view you'd play safe and assume the point load could max out at 450kg on any leg and you'd also look at the wooden solution they have now and from that be able to work out what thickness / surface material you'd need in the new bridge to mimic what they're currently using. (*all they could tell you is the theoretical distribution on a perfectly flat surface of a stationary piano in optimum conditions - as soon as you encounter a slight ramp, a slight variation in floor height or even just some wear-and-tear on the piano the weight distribution is going to be different to that measured in a static, optimum situation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPAman Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 This may help or not :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Well Imagineertom, I'm sorry you think this is question is a waste of Blue Room's time but I think the OP has done the right thing. He consulted a structural engineer who said they needed to know the point load on each leg. Normally you're all worrying about people who build stuff without asking these questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Pearce Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 The more interesting idea is that a Steinway D, even assuming best case scenario of equal weight distribution, is too heavy for our standard deck systems. I'm sure we've all seen large grand pianos on deck stages. :s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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