How to say no

[Oldradiohand]

My attitude to unreasonable requests has always been "I'm happy to do it if you'll sign the risk assessment". I'm assuming, as the teacher in charge of the activity and the producer/director it's her responsibility to make sure a risk assessment is done and it's her responsibility to sign it off. A phrase I've often used in safety lectures is "do you like prison food?" (there's a longer version for more mature audiences) - it concentrates the mind beautifully. I don't suppose having a photosensitive epileptic collapse and choke to death on their own tongue during the production would do her teaching career much good, either.

(I have a friend who nearly did this as a result of a flurry of flashguns on a TV news report - fortunately his partner returned home from shopping in time to resuscitate him.)

[alistairhammond]

This being a school, they should have a risk assessment in place for using strobes and lasers, because as has been pointed out, they both have dangers associated with them. Strobes: photosensitive epilepsy, lasers: retina/eye damage. Ask your teacher for a copy of the risk assessment. If one has been done, it should note measures such as "no more than 10s of strobe", or "make sure lasers cannot point at the audience" etc. This will give a solid reason you can give to your 'troublesome teacher' as to why her ideas may not safe to perform.

 

If they have not been risk assessed, then they should be before they are used in a show. If your teacher is unwilling to research the issues and come up with an assessment for using these effects, or if an assessment has been made and is not being followed, this will give you come concrete leverage. If you feel that what the teacher is doing dangerous, take the risk assessment/lack of one higher up the chain, to the head of department/line manager (if they have one)/headteacher/Health and Safety officer.

 

If you don't think it's dangerous, merely inappropriate, you can try mark_s' suggestion of trying to bring other ideas to the show. If you can organise a demonstration of some sort, perhaps without gaffing the teacher to her chair first, she may see sense and change her mind. If all else fails, keep calm and carry on! You're not being paid here, your future career is not at risk. If this is for an assessed GCSE piece, your teacher's opinion will not matter. If it's just some school production, remember that it is not a professional production, so grow a thick skin and keep out of her way.

[brainwave-generator]

My attitude to unreasonable requests has always been "I'm happy to do it if you'll sign the risk assessment"

 

Are you serious? You mean - you're completely happy for people to get hurt, as long as somebody else takes the fall for it?

 

How very responsible.

 

You might like to know, for your own benefit, that not having your name on the paperwork does prevent you from being accountable. If you break the law you can be prosecuted whether your name is on the paperwork or not. If you're considered to be a 'competent person' and you allow a practice, which you know to be wrong, to go ahead; then you are as guilty as the person who signed the risk assessment. If you think something is unsafe, the ONLY way to ensure you cannot be held accountable is to walk away, but not without leaving them a signed document on why you believe that the practice is unsafe and that your recommendation as a professional is that it isn't done.

[Oldradiohand]

My attitude to unreasonable requests has always been "I'm happy to do it if you'll sign the risk assessment"

 

Are you serious? You mean - you're completely happy for people to get hurt, as long as somebody else takes the fall for it?

 

How very responsible.

 

You might like to know, for your own benefit, that not having your name on the paperwork does prevent you from being accountable. If you break the law you can be prosecuted whether your name is on the paperwork or not. If you're considered to be a 'competent person' and you allow a practice, which you know to be wrong, to go ahead; then you are as guilty as the person who signed the risk assessment. If you think something is unsafe, the ONLY way to ensure you cannot be held accountable is to walk away, but not without leaving them a signed document on why you believe that the practice is unsafe and that your recommendation as a professional is that it isn't done.

 

It's a question of pointing out responsibility. If the requirement is several minutes of strobe then the risk assessment will describe the risk level as high and point out what the hazards are. Suddenly the "we must have" requirement becomes less important to the production and common sense should prevail. As a matter of principle there's no such thing as an unacceptable risk - only one that's reduced as far as is reasonably practicable. If the risk is still high but the outcome of the activity can be justified then there's nothing stopping you from doing it. If it all goes wrong and you end up in court you have to be able to prove that the end justified the means. If I'm the competent person and I've pointed out the risks and suggested how they may be reduced on the risk assessment I can do no more. My only option is to walk away (and inform the HSE) Like I said, do you like prison food......

[kerry davies]

Please remember we are discussing a post from a school pupil. They cannot sign off or even make the RA for a school production and actually have it mean more than invisible ink on toilet paper.

 

They ain't going to get prosecuted, ever. The teacher and LEA will be.

 

This situation is precisely the same in school as in the big bad world outside. When the "boss" wants to do something we think stupid and hazardous we make the case against with all the information we can get. If the "boss" remains steadfast and we are still convinced of the danger we walk away.

[sleah]

Here's an idea that might work, or at least work better....

 

Speak to your parents (guardians) and express your concerns to them that what you are being asked to do is unacceptable, then THEY go in to school and discuss it with your teacher and/or headteacher.

A parent complaining, especially if they are coached (clued-up) about what's wrong and WHY it's wrong is going to be taken more seriously than a student speaking for themselves.

 

After all, that's what would happen if you didn't like something about the way your English/Maths/Geography/French teacher was teaching.

[Matt Riley]

Remembering back eight years ago to when I finished school, I recall encountering a few situations like this. My advice would be, if you want to avoid the possible damage caused by a confrontation then, like the thread title suggests, you need to say 'no'

 

With this gig you have potentially learnt a good few lessons for later on:

1- always meet with the client to ascertain the brief (and budget!) before committing to a project

2- if the project looks like it's going to be more trouble than it's worth, then it's worth becoming busy and politely declining.

 

If you haven't committed to doing the event - politely decline and point them in the direction of a company or individual to work the gig who has enough clout with the school to tell them what is safe and who will be listened to.

 

If I had already committed to the event, then I would be humbly telling the teacher that I don't know how to operate lasers and strobes and suggest a competent person who can work with them on sorting out that part of the event.

 

Alternatively perhaps respectfully back out citing need to focus more on academic studies - the teacher can't really contest it and it may act as a catalyst for them to think about how they run things without the raft of future problems associated with hastily written resignation letters or director vs tech clashes.

 

This gig sounds like it won't exactly be one for the CV, and you're doing it for free - so don't lose any sleep over sitting this one out.

[JackP]

There is a vocal teacher at my school who has no respect what so ever (they did everything your instructor is). I eventually sat down with her and told her that she could talk to us like people or she wouldn't get anything for her shows. of course it was said a bit ruder and more agresive, but it worked after about a week she started treating us with respect.

[sleah]

There is a vocal teacher at my school who has no respect what so ever (they did everything your instructor is). I eventually sat down with her and told her that she could talk to us like people or she wouldn't get anything for her shows. of course it was said a bit ruder and more agresive, but it worked after about a week she started treating us with respect.

 

Hmm... dangerous ground! Sounds like you got lucky, but could back-fire horribly :o

[JackP]

There is a vocal teacher at my school who has no respect what so ever (they did everything your instructor is). I eventually sat down with her and told her that she could talk to us like people or she wouldn't get anything for her shows. of course it was said a bit ruder and more agresive, but it worked after about a week she started treating us with respect.

 

Hmm... dangerous ground! Sounds like you got lucky, but could back-fire horribly :o

 

 

Somtimes you have to take risks. And the only thing I can think of that she could have done would be to write me up, and the administration actually apreciates what we do so I'm not sure how far that would have gone.

[Wingwalker]

There is also the cultural difference there as chaps in America are a little more forward in their approach whereas in little old Blighty we tend to write a letter :D

[JackP]

There is also the cultural difference there as chaps in America are a little more forward in their approach whereas in little old Blighty we tend to write a letter :D

 

 

Definatly agree with that, and by no means am I trying to say thats the best way, or even one of the better ones because it's definatly not. A letter outlining the risks and maybe how to achieve the same type of effect while lowering the risk could be a good way to show them you know what your doing. But lets face It some adults will allways think they are allowed to be dis-respectful to students just because of their age.

[paulears]

But lets face It some adults will allways think they are allowed to be dis-respectful to students just because of their age.

Respect must be earned. Students should accept that sometimes they must just do what they are told to do. It is not disrespectful for the teacher to believe they are in charge. It is stupid to expect somebody who is older and more skilled to consider the student/younger person as an equal. "are you disrespecting me?" is a common cry, and often it just means the total opposite - as in no, it is you who has no respect for me, my office and my position - all thing that had to be earned.

 

The same thing applies to employees who assume they can do or say what they want . If the young people earned the respect they demand, I'd be happy - but they want it as a right not something earned.

 

 

Sorry for all those young people who don't act like this - but I just can't stand this respect thing!

[JackP]

But lets face It some adults will allways think they are allowed to be dis-respectful to students just because of their age.

Respect must be earned. Students should accept that sometimes they must just do what they are told to do. It is not disrespectful for the teacher to believe they are in charge. It is stupid to expect somebody who is older and more skilled to consider the student/younger person as an equal. "are you disrespecting me?" is a common cry, and often it just means the total opposite - as in no, it is you who has no respect for me, my office and my position - all thing that had to be earned.

 

The same thing applies to employees who assume they can do or say what they want . If the young people earned the respect they demand, I'd be happy - but they want it as a right not something earned.

 

 

Sorry for all those young people who don't act like this - but I just can't stand this respect thing!

 

I'm not at all saying that respect isn't earned and every one should have it right out of the gates, especially when the teacher has experience and knows more than I do. But when a teacher has watched us set up numerous shows where I have donated some of my own gear to her performance and none of us get even a thank you out of her, and still doesn't apreciate a thing we do. Those are the people I am talking about. And I'm not saying we put on the best shows in the world because we all know thats not true, but in the time they were put together they weren't bad by any means.

[david.elsbury]

Respect and appreciation are two very different things... it's not uncommon to not be appreciated but because the teacher doesn't appreciate you doesn't mean you aren't respected.

 

Also, you're 17 (or thereabouts), even though you do sound fairly mature, I'd suggest that if you were to come back to this thread in 5 years time you'll be suprised at your attitudes now, and might appreciate the point of view Paul etc is making :)

David