1000watts? Are these really?

[MisterJames]

Hello,

 

EV ELX112P state their powered speaker does 1000w? Is this RMS... Peak? Also be interesting to know what the LF and HF drivers are wattage wise. The passive versions are 250 cont. :/

 

ALSO

 

JBL PRX612M state they are 1000w (2x500w) Again is this rms? What is the LF and HF wattage? Does any one know?

 

Cheers

[J Pearce]

Wattage is how much electrical power they'll take before permanent damage. This doesn't have as close a relationship to acoustic output as you might think.

The figures to look for are frequency response and peak SPL output (at what frequencies, distance and distortion).

[paulears]

The manual does say this

Under high signal conditions, the Live X loudspeaker amplifier can draw 1.0 amps of current at 120V, or 0.6 amps at 230V. Be cautious of what else is plugged into the same electrical service line to avoid electrical problems and poor performance.

If the maximum power consumption is 138W the warning seems somewhat over-cautious. With this value during high signal conditions, I suspect their figures about as useful as the ones from a wind farm - downhill, with the wind behind them. 1000W? hmmmmm (tm Ynot)

[themadhippy]

But hang on paul,a lab gruppen 4 channel amp claims to kick out 10kw and yet only to need a 16A supply at 240v

[MisterJames]

Wattage is how much electrical power they'll take before permanent damage. This doesn't have as close a relationship to acoustic output as you might think.

The figures to look for are frequency response and peak SPL output (at what frequencies, distance and distortion).

 

Im slightly confused by that... Im a amateur when it comes to specs but I do understand know that wattage is nothing really... From looking at the Freq response and max SPL Both seem the similar with JBL taking a bit of a lead in output?

[paulears]

yep - but ten of them would only pull 6A for 10K - the fact that the very detailed spec and other data in the manual 'forgets' to quantify the output power properly is a bit odd, isn't it?

[Bobbsy]

Unfortunately it's not "odd" at all. Meaningless specs are the norm, particularly with prosumer gear aimed at the MI market.

 

The one thing you can absolutely deduce from the discrepancy between the output "spec" and the power input requirements is that the "1000W" figure must be for instantaneous peaks not anything like "continuous" or "RMS". Indeed, in my hifi days I had a QUAD 405 amplifier which was rated at 100W RMS but which could put out brief peaks of around 1000W.

 

This doesn't mean the EV is a bad powered speaker or that Lab Gruppen are lying. There are lots of tricks that can be used in amplifier design to take advantage of the difference between the power needed continuously and the occasional brief peaks that are needed. Of course, the style of music can have a lot of influence over how satisfactory this is--some modern electronic music has a much smaller difference between peaks and continuous. Luckily for me, I tend to work on conventional live music!

 

And, as somebody said, quoting a figure for amp power without knowing the efficiency of the speakers makes it all meaningless anyway! Differences in loudspeaker design can make some, usually expensive, models louder and better sounding at 100W than some cheapies are at 1000W.

[paulears]

Too true - I bumped into somebody using one of those battery powered 'flight cased' portable systems - this one was an Alesis, and it was - to all intents and purposes, really loud - being used for a zumba class - easily making enough noise for what on paper isn't much in the Watts dept. I think in this case, I'm just surprised EV have jumped on the non-specific bandwagon. They didn't do it with their other small products like SX-300, which they could have called the SX-1000 to impress the innocent.

[John M]

My Samsung home cinema system is "rated" at 1000 watts RMS. It is very loud in my front room and its surprising the amount that comes out of the 8" lightweight sub. I was tempted to use it as a PA but found that it has a very noticeable delay. But is seems pretty unlikely that the 1000 watts can compare with 2 x mackie Sr450's or any other normal PA speakers which in spec terms would be less than 1000 watts

 

They used to advertise car systems at 1000 watts (perhaps they still do) and judging by the level of some car subs perhaps they really are - I used to work in an office in Central London on the 3rd floor of a large building set back from the road and double glazed - my desk was about 15 metres from the window and every now and then I could clearly hear the sub from a passing car - I know a one man band musician that uses a car sub and amplifier which actually work very well and cost a fraction of the price of music shop subs

 

My newish JBL EON 515 XT's are rated at 650 watts but... they use the same bass driver as the original 515s so it seems pretty unlikely that they can be much louder although they do use a different horn. Apparently both units use the same power amp, but the XT has a more sensitive pre amp which makes it seem much louder that the original 515 - but still pretty dubious specs.

 

The only believable spec is MEASURED SPL. Most manufacturers quote the calculated SPL which has no relationship to real world levels eg a rock band can expect to put out 130 dB SPL and yet each of my JBL Eons are rated at something like 132 dB - so in theory I am carrying more power in my two portable speakers than a rock band using 1000's of watts of power + live drums etc. which is obviously impossible

 

I read somewhere that my JBL eon 515 xt measured SPL is more like 120 dBm.

 

Regarding input watts verse output - My AC theory is a bit foggy and I cant be bothered to revise but I am guessing that an input of 100 watts at 240 volts is probably able to output substantially more power into a low resistance source such as a loudspeaker working at low voltage.

 

By the way I notice the Olympic opening ceremony has been quoted as using a a PA system with an output of a million watts so they will no doubt need their own sub station.

[bruce]

 

Regarding input watts verse output - My AC theory is a bit foggy and I cant be bothered to revise but I am guessing that an input of 100 watts at 240 volts is probably able to output substantially more power into a low resistance source such as a loudspeaker working at low voltage.

 

It's a pity you can't be bothered to revise, cos that statement is just plain wrong.

[jameskerr87]

The unpowered verions are rated at 250 W continuous, 1000 W peak. and its the amp inside which is rated at 1000w so makes sense no?

[Bobbsy]

 

I read somewhere that my JBL eon 515 xt measured SPL is more like 120 dBm.

 

 

I don't think I've every measured SPL in dB (milliwatts).

 

As for the Olympic stadium having its own substation, I'm sure it does--if not several.

 

Even the little TV facility I used to work at had a small substation out back.

[timsabre]

 

As for the Olympic stadium having its own substation, I'm sure it does--if not several.

 

 

For the "1 million watt" opening ceremony it will more likely be temporary generators. No doubt someone on here actually knows, but probably isn't allowed to say...

[MisterJames]

In EV's Case the 1000watts is the amplifier inside... the actual driver can only cope with 250wrms and a 1000w peak.... The question is are the EV more efficient than say the mackie SRM450V2 that kick out 400wrms? By efficiency I mean that EV actually give out 100% 250wrms where as mackie might only be 50% making it 200wrms?

 

Does anyone know if JBL PRX612M are actually 1000rms or peak... if they are peak whats are they really rms?

 

Loads of questions their. I apologise!

[fincaman]

Hello all, OK so I am probably one of the older members but at one time if an amp was rated at 200 watts it meant 200 watts RMS sine wave continuous and no one broke the unwritten rule, then some companies decided to "redefine the watt" giving complex reasons why but with one motive, overnight their amps were twice as powerful for the money and of course other manufacturers had to do the same. An amplifier can not give out more power than it takes in so if it were 100 % efficient which no amplifier is and if it draws 16 A at 230 volts the maximum RMS power it can deliver in total is 3680 watts. Amplifiers however are becoming more "clever" and can often deliver power well in excess of their RMS rating for short periods so short peaks can be handled, this is a very complex subject and I have only scratched the surface in this post.