pritch Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 I'm asking for the day job here so it's not really backstage, but hopefully this'll be in someone's area of expertise. I've been given the task of specifying and coordinating the installation of some screens. We're looking at screens somewhere between 42" and 60". Most of the time, these will be displaying a completely static image; we're talking about an image that will, for months on end, probably not change very much. Now, I know that pretty much any display technology out there is going to suffer monstrous screen burn after that length of time - but which is the least bad option for this sort of thing? Projectors probably aren't an option, by the way; the room's well lit and with quite a bit of foot traffic to get in the way. Although the budget for this job is likely to be reasonably generous, if I go to my boss asking for four short-throw high-lumen projectors, I'm going to be laughed at. Although the room that the screens are in only operates for maybe 12 hours a day most of the time, they'll probably be left on permanently - that is, unless someone can suggest a way of having them only on for 12 hours Monday - Friday, but with an easy override option if anyone needs to turn them on outside of these times? I've just been playing with my LG telly at home, which has the useful(?) option to turn itself off at a specific date and time, anywhere up to the year 2040, but nothing for a specific time each day. I was thinking about asking the electrical contractors who are installing the power to have something akin to a staircase timer, where a push on a momentary switch turns the sockets on for 12 hours, and cuts power after that. Will having them on for 12 hours a day instead of 24 make a significant difference to the screen burn anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 What's the source? Can you arrange for it to be "muted" ? Some "domestic"-style displays ("big tellys") can be configured to power off after a certain time on loss of signal. However, pro-quality kit (I've installed lots of NEC displays which use this feature) can be set to go to standby on loss of signal, and then (the feature you don't find on domestic kit) power on when signal is restored. So muting the source - or even powering down a DA! - would turn the display off. Also, most pro-quality kit will have the option of serial control, so that may give you other options? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peza2010 Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 I cant help in speccing of gear but - No plasma, would be my first piece of advice - ive seen some hellish burns in plasmas, from relatively little use!! also, there is of course the option of leaving them on for 24 hours, 12 hours doing what they are there to do, and 12 hours on white to un do the burning process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pritch Posted April 7, 2012 Author Share Posted April 7, 2012 What's the source? Can you arrange for it to be "muted" ? ... Also, most pro-quality kit will have the option of serial control, so that may give you other options? The source will either a PC with four outputs (HDMI, DVI or VGA - not sure yet), or possibly a PC per screen. Not sure about muting the outputs. Some days the PCs will have someone fiddling with them, other days not, so there's a good chance that if I set, say, a 12 hour screensaver or energy saving delay, on some days it won't cut in until an hour before they'd be switched back on anyway! As there's a good chance each of the four screens will have its own small PC mounted behind it, serial control is an interesting option. Send the command to turn them into standby each evening, and then powering them back on with the remote in the morning. Means no messing around with seven-day timers, no worrying about bank holidays, or any of that stuff. I cant help in speccing of gear but - No plasma, would be my first piece of advice - ive seen some hellish burns in plasmas, from relatively little use!! also, there is of course the option of leaving them on for 24 hours, 12 hours doing what they are there to do, and 12 hours on white to un do the burning process. I had a feeling people were going to say no to plasma - we've got a couple of plasmas in service doing something similar at the moment, and there's quite a clear logo burned into the top right of both of them. The 12 hour white is an interesting idea; might not do much for our green credentials, but it'd be an interesting idea to prolong the life of the screen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revbobuk Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Here's LG's comment on screen burn: Q7 – What is screen burn and image retention and how do I prevent or cure? Image retention and burn in are essentially the same thing, just in different forms. Image retention is temporary and will fade completely with time however, burn-in is permanent and won’t fade completely. It is a phosphor based technology specific problem, which means it affects plasmas, however, it is possible for an LCD to get image retention, but is extremely rare. - Prevention All LG Plasma TVs have two technologies to prevent screen burn. These can be found in the options menu under ISM methods: * Orbiter: After a short period of time the picture will subtlety move around the screen preventing the same pixels from being used for a prolonged period of time * Normal: If the TV detects a static image (e.g. DVD Title Menu) it will automatically dim the brightness of the television to a safer level There are also a few techniques that will help you prevent future burn-in. For starters, changing the contrast and brightness to below 50% during the ‘break-in period’ (first 100-200 hours) and try and avoid static images. LG TVs have an energy saving button on the remote control that will give a similar effect by selecting the ‘maximum’ setting. - Cure All LG Plasma TVs allow you to display a 100% white image to burn the rest of the pixels to the same extent as the damaged area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHYoung Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Whilst im not down on plasma as a technology, Its crazy to suggest leaving a screen on full white 12 hours a day, this means power consumption will be 100% and with 4 large screen you are looking at atleast a grands worth of electricity per annum, which asside from any enviromental issues, will have a very real effect to your finances. All decent screens have pixel shift burn mitigation options and by using this plus occasional whitewash, the burn houldnt be too bad, but if the main point of the displays if static images, id avoid plasma. If you want to do the job properly and in the long run cheapest, spend some money and get a proper commercial LFD ideally a led based lcd. This wont suffer burning like a plasma and it will also have a 3 year 24/7 use ONSITE warranty. This is important, as if you fit a big domestic telly commercially, technically you immediately void the warranty, and if it breaks you want it sorted out onsite, rather than trying to package it up to send it somewhere. We have installed a fair few screens in our time and in my experiences we have only ever had problems when due to budget constraints we have fitted domestic units. If you buy the right units, you will be able to schedule On Off times on the screen itself. What id do is install the screens, schedule them and then childlock the local control buttons. you then have the screens going on and off at the times set. If you are using the units out of hours, you can simply supply a remote control to turn the unit on and off or if you want to be fancy there are ways of doing this over ip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter F Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 LED/LCD screens are your best bet. Whilst they will suffer a degree of burn in, general wisdom says that it is fixable (by putting full white to the whole panel to even out irregularities). Far better to avoid having the problem by making your screensaver a moving one. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pritch Posted April 7, 2012 Author Share Posted April 7, 2012 Some interesting points raised all, thanks. I think we're definitely pointing at some sort of LCD rather than plasma. AHYoung - I shall have a look at getting quotes for commercial units. The idea of something that's rated for 24/7 use for three years is interesting, and from a quick look at prices on the web it seems that they're comparable to domestic units, and start to look quite favourable once you consider warranty for use of the unit in commercial premises. Peter - Unfortunately, screensavers aren't an option. We need things visible constantly so that we're not looking at flying toasters when the stuff we're supposed to be keeping an eye on decides to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dosxuk Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Do the room lights get turned off when the room's not in use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter F Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Peter - Unfortunately, screensavers aren't an option. We need things visible constantly so that we're not looking at flying toasters when the stuff we're supposed to be keeping an eye on decides to die. Apologies, I misunderstood your application. AHYoung's suggestion of going for commercial units is a good one. Being able to schedule on/off is a good feature for financial (although fairly nominal) and environmental reasons and, I would assume can only help prolong the lifetime of the screens. The burn in effect on LCD/LED is nowhere near as bad as that of CRT or Plasma screens, and a mentioned elsewhere in this thread is easily fixed by putting full white to the screen for half an hour or so. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHYoung Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 If you but a decent plasma, all the anti burn stuff is built in and it shifts the image a few pixels every so often in a vaque figure of 8 pattern, no need for screensavers. Its one of these areas where if you look, the manufacturers are well aware of both the inherent problems of the technology and needs of the customers and actually take the trouble to build all the stuff in. Also id be surprised if the room lighting isnt on a sensor or central system to turn the lighting off when not needed, Even if its not, its fairly rubbish to not fit a solution that prolongs the panel life and saves thousands in power consumption on the ground that its no worse than the lights. Pretty much most proffesional Displays and projectors currently available have scheduling built in or the facility to schedule them externally as this is what the market needs and wants, your telly might not do it, but again thats why you dont use a telly... It may be half the price, but in the long run it wont be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipstream Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 A static image that doesn't change for months - we used to call them posters - I'll split the saving with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete McCrea Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 As others have said, a proper commercial display will have a warranty that covers them for proper commercial use, and the features to get round burn in, as well as a better thermal management system, plus all the scheduling requirements you need. That said a simple controller from Extron/Ikon AVS would enable you to program several buttons with RS232 codes for any other functions you might require such as additional on/off override. I'd also support the LCD/LED comments. Panasonic, LG, or NEC would be my first thought for options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljoshua Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Slight sidewards step here. Our Local KFCs now have Samsung LCDs installed instead of posters displaying the menus. Some of these screens are on static for 14 hours a day or more. I would've thought that the people behind specing those would've spent a fair bit of time over their display choice for that application. I'm thinking Samsung commercial displays should be considered too. Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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