Avo Pearl

[fireball40k]

I might have a chance of getting a Pearl for not too much money in the near future. I've heard great things about its busking capabilities but various negative comments regarding the theatre stack part of it.

 

It would be needed for a mixture of band lighting as well as small to medium theatre productions. I'd be interested in hearing your comments regarding its pitfalls for the latter. How does it stack up to MagicQ for such purposes?

[maxjones2000]

Having used both (granted on school shows), I would say that they are roughly even - the Pearl is EXCELLENT for busking, but not too great with the theatre stack, and MQ has a VERY good theatre stack and IMHO isn't that good for busking (although I was only using a laptop with no additional hardware).

 

The thing with the Avo theatre stack is that it's not too bad if you get around the way it works, and plan things very carefully (for example, I spent about 2-3 weeks before my exam/show learning how it works etc).

 

The main bit I don't like is that it has no move-in-black feature, so I had to think at least a cue ahead with the movers so that I didn't get any horrible sweeps at the beginning of cues (although this purely accidently looked good for one cue...), which was a bit mind numming at some stages.

 

All in all, I would say that it depends which you're going to use it for more. If it's mainly for band lighting, then I'd go for it - it's an excellent desk, but if it's more for theatre, I'd use MQ and get a PC wing for busking.

 

HTH

Max

[mark_s]

Which Pearl? If it's a 'classic' Pearl and you actually intend on using the theatre stack, avoid like the plague. Clunky interface, clunky workflow, and just generally not made for it. I also inception had the misfortune of having a Pearl 2000 crash in a DBO before the first cue of a show and haven't trusted them since.

 

If, on the other hand, it's running Titan, then maybe. I still don't personally like the interface or methodology, but it is a vast improvement. Try one and see if you like how it works. Pearls are brilliant to busk with though,there's no question about that!

 

I'm a huge fan of MagicQ, and wouldn't hesitate to spec it for theatre or live events, but you'll find that the usability changes depending on what hardware you have. Without a surface of some form, a Pearl will win hands down for busking. With a wing, well it depends on what you like.

[gordontech]

With time the pearl theatre stack on titan is just as good as any other desk. It does take longer to get used to then other desks I use like ETC's but the functions are all there. Im sure theres other avo programmers on here that are quite happy to give you a few tips if you get it. Don't believe all the reviews, for some people it does click in.

 

There are the odd problems on 2000 which may take a while to find an update old enough to work but I also know programmers who can use it without problems. (oddly normally down south)

 

Haven't experienced much on the MagicQ to be honest so I can't compare.

 

 

[fireball40k]

Just to be clear it's a Pearl Tiger.

 

After resisting MagicQ for a number of years (mainly because I never invested the time to get over my initial dislikes of the UI), I recently had a very good experience with it on a theatre production. However, I'm still unconvinced about its busking capabilities and I don't have a wing to play with at the moment.

 

The Avo rollercue idea has always appealed to me for band work. However, whichever desk I go for will need to busk and run/edit cues reasonably well for a variety of different shows. If cues stacks really are the Avo's Achilles heel then I might need to pass.

[peza2010]

Go for the pearl. It will win hands down for band work imho - you will also find that most rental houses in the UK own an avo of some sort.

 

And if yo

 

Go for the pearl. It will win hands down for band work imho - you will also find that most rental houses in the UK own an avo of some sort. Also in my experience a lot of guest engineers can jump straight on a pearl more so than with magic q - so I've found anyway.

 

And of course you can get magic q up and running to some extent for between 10 and 80 quid and use its theatre stack.

[DonkiDonki]

Just to be clear it's a Pearl Tiger.

 

I would not recommend the classic Pearl Tiger for theatre use mainly because it only has 10 submasters compared to the Pearls 15. A bunch of these are taken up in theatre stack mode which leaves you with few subs for anything else.

 

If you really want to go the Pearl route then either a used full size pearl(cheapish) or the new Tiger Touch (good kit but more expensive)

 

MagicQ is a versatile solution, with the cost mainly driven by your choice of hardware. You may want to look at the MQ60 as an alternative to a Tiger Touch or you have a number of PC-Wing options. My personal setup comprises of a laptop with internal touch screen, a seperate 17" touch screen and a PC-Wing (the middle Wing of the range). I find this a good combination for most show types and cost wise you would pay a similar amount for a recent used Pearl, certainly cheaper than a Tiger Touch/MQ60. The touch screens are almost essential for MagicQ; though whatever you do, don't choose an IPS type which has optical sensors and detects your selection before you touch the screen! I use an ELO 5-wire resistive and find it ideal for LX use; perfect for programming and responsive enough for light busking.

 

If busking for bands is something you do a lot you could add the Extra-wing which gives you more submasters and execute buttons, I believe the cost is similar to that of the PC Wing but you could always add that later as funds permit or even hire if the requirement is occasional?

 

In terms of functionality, the new Avo Titan range (including Tiger Touch) and MagicQ are in the same ball park; which is leagues ahead of the classic Pearl & Pearl Tiger.

[mark_s]

I can't get to the quote feature on my phone, but the suggestion that a Pearl will win 'hands down' for band work is just rubbish. It's all a matter of preference. I'd happily spec an MQ100 over a Pearl Expert any day for live work.

 

To the OP - make sure you 'have a go' on whatever you decide on before you spend any money. It's not much fun spending a few thousand on the advice of a random stranger, only to realise that you truly despise your new purchase.

[fireball40k]

To the OP - make sure you 'have a go' on whatever you decide on before you spend any money. It's not much fun spending a few thousand on the advice of a random stranger, only to realise that you truly despise your new purchase.

 

You're quite right Mark and ideally I would do that. It's just that this has come up at an inopportune moment, where trying it out properly in advance is not possible. I guess what I'm really looking at here is to find good reasons to not be tempted to buy this desk and wait until a used MQ maxi wing comes up at the right price. The upcoming MQ60 does look very tasty, though I'm sure the price tag will be well out of my range. I'll just wait another five years then.

[peza2010]

I'll just wait another five years then.

 

Avo desks hold there money pretty darn well. I'd say if you went for an Avo and kept it for a few years it would still sell at reasonable money.

[mrboo]

I do like MQ but if I have to pick a desk it the Avo Pearl as it wins every time due to just one item. Try hire a MQ in London you just can`t that easy try hire a Avo every number you call will have one and most of the time in stock. when you need a desk there and then you understand you cant do a show without a desk and when your desk dies you need one within hrs that will run your shows. if I cant get a avo then I go for martin Lightjocky then MQ. yes if I had a venue that had the money to buy a desk I would buy the MQ but would also have a Avo hired in just to make a backup show with it so I would have it ready to go if I needed a 2nd desk. if MQ was easy to hire I would wihout any thinking jump for it but untill you can hire a MQ desk or full wing for £40 day £120 week like you can for a Tiger or a bit more for a pearl from the likes of 10 out of 10 productions.

[niclights]

Regarding trying before have you considered downloading the 2004 Simulator?

 

It's for a Pearl 2004 but the software is identical. Just remember you will only have the 10 playbacks and one preset (on the Tiger the upper preset bank is still available for patching/selecting fixtures via Shift key).

Also, there is a little wing that extends the Tiger to 15 playbacks should you wish.

 

However I would highly recommend the Titan route if at all possible. Titan Mobile is hugely popular and I would imagine not far off the price of a used Tiger.

 

Finally, regarding more advanced cue-list functions the upcoming Titan v6 will add comprehensive 'move in dark', 'this cue only', 'solo' etc.

[dmoffat]

The existing Titan V5 certainly has move on dark and cue only recording.

 

Having used many desks and tried to get my head around the Magic Q stuff. The Avo desk, for me, makes the most amount of sense, and to this point I would use it over pretty much any other desk for theatre, band, event or any other work like that. The new upgrades to the theatre stack being released in V6 are very powerful, and Avo have clearly spent a lot of time bringing the theatre stack upto scratch, as this was always the failing with the classic pearl.

[brainwave-generator]

There are some very over opinionated views here that amount to complete and utter tripe in reality. Both desks are very good with both having good history in rock and theatre usage. One key point that has been missed is "which pearl and which magicq". Yes I would any day have an MQ100 over a Pearl 2004 but the latter is quite a lot older and so on the second hand market will go for enough cheaper that you could still afford to buy a car to transport it in. For band use I prefer avos. Any claim that a "classic pearl should be avoided like the plague" is complete verbal diahorrea. If you're getting clunky performance it's probably a clunky operator. It was the driving force behind every club touring rock n roll gig for nearly 10 years, far more popular than the hog or ma. They are very solid, take a lot of abuse, and are ultimately very powerful tools for moving light use. The theatre stacks yes leave a lot to be desired for but it's a buskers desk at heart. If bands are your forte, a pearl would do you well. Yes, the Titan system brings a lot to the table, as does a much improved control surface on the pearl expert. That's still a great rock n roll board and used widely on touring rock bands. The possibilities and ease of programming on the Chamsys are really rather impressive though. Largely the result of new technology and being a much more recent brand. They brought a whole new sysstem to the table with no need to really relate it to 15 year old systems. I was really impressed the first time I used an MQ board, but the PC and wing based system, whilst powerful, just doesn't really give you enough hands on to play a gig by ear. And this is wher ethe comparison becomes difficult. You should be able to pick up. Boris-board P2004 for around 2 grand, which gives you 60 handles for dimmers over 4 pages, as well as 16 (?) sub masters for playback. For the same money you'll get a PC wing, albeit new, which has no handles for dimmers and less sub masters. Try busking on that. You'll need to be hot on a mouse. the level of hands on control on a pearl is one of the best going.I would stray from the Tiger it's just a bit small. It's really good for small venues with some movers of LED fixtures if buying new is something they need to do, but if used is an option I always promote getting a 2004 or a 2008. Yes of course a Titan will do you much better but even used you'll be looking at 5 grand which is a lot of money for many users for a system which, within their venue, will not see all of the advantages that it's technology offers. There's a lot of small clubs out in Europe exhibiting GMA2s that just don't get used to anything near their working capacity, and yet the venue tell you they can't afford to upgrade their 50 year old verlinde motors which are close to disfunctional as a motor can get before it stops moving!!!Ultimately a good option might be to look into a hire for 2 weeks each. It shouldn't set you back too much, if you can find some rental companies selling their old boards they might well even do you a hire to buy deal where if you hire then buy they kill the hire charge. Rather than listening to what other people would rather own, consider renting a couple of possible choices for a week or two each, having a good play, and just seeing what works for you. If that's going to be an expense you can't afford, a cheaper option is also just to ring the manufacturers, book yourself onto training (usually free), and just use the training days to decide which you like the most. The training is well worth attending anyway so nothing to lose in doing it. I trained with a few companies and decided that whilst the Expert was my favourite, I'd buy Magicq and a PC wing just because the value for money at £1500 was unbeatable. So there's my advice - worry less about what others have to say and see what suits YOU best!

[paulears]

I think that it would be interesting to read somebodies opinion on the ago simulator v magicq running on a pc - no real faders or cleverness - and see which they like. Add a real fader or two to any control system and your opinion changes almost instantly. If you went to the rental house and they had both systems in stock, you'd be daft to hire the one you are not comfy on - because you would be less effective. How many times have we seen somebody hire a clever control, never having played with one before and then appear here asking for help on very basic features? Far too many times. If you are a really good ago person, then you don't really need your own desk, because you can hire one almost anywhere. With magicq, the coverage does seem to be getting better - the number of people adding themselves to the magicq-hire.com list is steadily growing, which shows that hire companies are rapidly investing in them and the number of owner operators is growing too.

 

It would be foolish to even think about saying one is better. They're different, that's all. If hire is vital, anywhere and instantly, then avo has it at the moment.