Reaper - linking to Ion via MSC

[Ynot]

I've been looking for somthing to occasionally use to drive timecode linke d to an audio track over MIDI to drive cues on our Ion LX desk. A while back the nice chaps at ETC suggested that Reaper might be a good choice, though they didn't have too much direct experience with it themselves at the time.

 

Now, being a novice at MIDI and MSC on the Ion, I'm looking for some direct help and/or a tutorial which will point me at how to simply set up the software and the ion itself to send triggers from reaper that can be read and executed by the ion.

 

I've joined the reaper forum and asked the question there, but it's likely that many of the buffs over there may not necessarily appreciate the finer points of linking to LX desks, so thought I'd ask also here.

 

Anyone any thoughts?

[dbuckley]

Know little of Ions, so this is a bit generic. But your question mixes concepts so perhaps a gentle introduction so you'll be in a position to ask better questions.

 

There's two distinct ways to connect something chucking out audio to a light controller.

 

Way A is to use timecode, probably MTC. With time code you pass "time" down the MIDI cable, and thus set up the Ion to do "something" at an appropriate time, so for example, at 01:03:34:12 execute cue 4.1 - there is nothing to set "per cue" on the sending device, you basically set up to transmit timecode and what the timecode format is.

 

Way B is to use MSC. With MSC you send MSC commands down the cable. The sending device works out the "when" at at the appropriate time sends the MSC command out. The command might be Cue 4.1 Go. Theres little to do on the receiving device in this approach (usually the cue number is what you would have in the cue stack anyway) but all the work is in setting up the sender.

 

There is a third way using other MIDI commands like Note On, but this is generally used for lower spec desks than the Ion, like a Zero88 XL, so we'll ignore that.

 

So they question then becomes which way do you want to work? This is determined not only by personal preference but by the capability of the devices at each end of the MIDI cable. Both ends have to be able to do what is necessary to send and receive respectfully.

 

The reason I suggested you are confused was that in your opening paragraph you note "to drive timecode linked to an audio track over MIDI" (which is Way A) and then later say "to send triggers from reaper that can be read and executed by the ion" which is Way B.

[Ynot]

Like I say, I'm not at all well versed in anything timecode or MIDI or such like, so ANY pointers on the best/easiest way to control Ion cues via a MIDI link with set trigger points marked on the audio track is what I need...

 

If there is any simple software out there in the wide world (prepared to purchase if it does the trick) I'd also be happy to look at alternatives...

 

 

[Dj Dunc]

The easiest way to do that would be to use Multiplay / Qlab. Have the audio one one cue, and just set midi triggers to fire off at various points referenced to the audio track. (so say cue 1 would be audio, 1.1 would be midi cue 1) then youd put a delay of X seconds on cue midi cue 2 etc.

[dbuckley]

If you are primarily a lightist then having simple audio and all the timing action on the light console is the way to go.

 

The simplest way for this to work is to have an audio player that can output MTC, and plug that into your Ion. You then set up the Ion to receive MTC, and then see Programming a Time Code Event in the Ion manual, especially the "Learn" function. What you do is to play the track, and then work the desk "to the music", and the desk will record events into the event list. Then when you play the track back the desk will run the events that you recorded sticking to the timecode like glue.

 

Audio player that outputs MTC is a bigger challenge. Reaper apparently does. Pretty much any music creation (sequencer) program does, as does Ableton Live. What software platform would Sir prefer, or would Sir like a hardware player? HD24, or smaller like a Fostex little 8 track?

 

There's only two gotchas to think about. The first is you need to decide which format of timecode you want, of 24, 25, 30 or 29.97fps. If all you want is to link up two boxes and you are recording the tracks into those boxes and there is no video involved, then any will do, so pick one, I tend to use 25fps. The second is you need to decide on your start points. Timecode is a clock, HH:MM:SS:FF where FF is frame. Normally you start each track an hour apart, so the first goes at 01:00:00:00 the second at 02:00:00:00 etc. If you screw this up then you'll learn about offset :)

[Ynot]

Well, after posters in both the Ion and Reaper forums read each other's threads and suggestions, the solution is indeed simpler than I first thought, and pretty much as a couple here have surmised.

 

I can't test it as yet as we have a show in this week and I'm not prepared to play around with desk settings during someone else's show, so it'll be next week now.

 

But the plan is to run the audio track on Reaper which has a MIDI timecode track in parallel giving the clock signal.

Assuming I can figure how to synch that clock with the Ion clock (apparently not too difficult) I then programme the Ion Show Control with events linked to cues which execute at specific times from the clock 00:00 and so on.

 

Hopefully that's all there is to it - just getting the timings right on the timeline and Bob's yer mother's brother!

 

Will let you all know when I test it.

 

 

[david.elsbury]

Apologies if you already know this, but don't start your first cue at the start of the timecode. Let it pre-roll and sync up, and start the first cue at something like 00:01:00:00 so that it has a bit of a chance to pick it up correctly. It may not be as big a deal with modern equipment but I recall that bit of advice in my travels.

 

David

[Ynot]

Apologies if you already know this, but don't start your first cue at the start of the timecode. Let it pre-roll and sync up, and start the first cue at something like 00:01:00:00 so that it has a bit of a chance to pick it up correctly. It may not be as big a deal with modern equipment but I recall that bit of advice in my travels.

Yeah - Richard at ETC has already recommended that we put some pre-roll in there.

 

One thing that has occurred to me however is the fact that there is a high potential for this to increase my programming time...!

A track I'm going to use as a tester, and possibly as a sort of son-et-lumiere in a demo in a few weeks has quite a lot of on the beat 'stings' where a good LX change could be used - so many points where I could legitimately make a cue that I got to 88 cue points last night whilst playing in Reaper, and that was leaving a few out as there'd be follow-on cues from those I'd marked!! ;)

 

However, if it does work as I hope, it is going to make a big difference to some of the shows I do. :)