richie1575 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Hi All, What's a good solution to this one! Scenario is a hall which is used as a church on a sunday with a moderately decent PA system based around an Allen & Heath GL2400/24. During the week it is used for conferences which have a requirement for PA but not on the level of the sunday system. I want to use a simple power mixer (eg a GIGRAC) for the day to day work and leave the complex system for Sundays. The power in the 1000w version is ample. The problem comes when I want to use radiomic. They cannot afford to buy 2 sets of radiomics. Ideally we need to connect the radiomics to both systems. Before I start making Y-cables... I'm aware this is crude and given there might be some phantom power hanging around, I dont want to do damage. What's the best way to split balanced signals safely? There is likely to be a piano DI and a feed from a laptop DI which require the same arrangements! Any Ideas much appreciated! Regards Richie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac.calder Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Something like this. There are a number of different types of 2 way splits available active splits are awesome, but for lowest fuss, use passive splits, with transformer isolation on one output Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 The A&H desks are very forgiving about having phantom applied to them by accident - I suspect that any manufacturer who knows their kit will be wired with splits is aware that worst case is for and monitor desk both having phantom applied. So that said, the unskilled users are likely to be fiddling with the Gigrac, and the more proficient users with the A&H and would mnake sure it's phantom was off. That all said, wouldn't the simplest solution be a switch? a simple dpdt toggle switch labelled radio mic - and then gigrac in one position and A&H in the other? cost a couple of quid and prevent the wrong connection being made. Seems pretty simple and trouble free if it's in the rack with the receiver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 8 way Microphone splitter rack from Orchid Electronics. Quality, and a bargain at only £215 delivered, inc VAT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOD20 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Does the Allen and Heath board have direct outputs at the rear ? If so could you connect the mics to the A&H and then take a direct out to the Gigrac ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPAman Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Does the Allen and Heath board have direct outputs at the rear ? If so could you connect the mics to the A&H and then take a direct out to the Gigrac ? It does, but would then need the desk to be switched as it's post gain & HPF (and possibly post eq too depending on how the desk's set up) so probably not a good solution here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Riley Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Why not a simple passive Y split with the audio earth lifted on one leg to stop phantom issues? Also check whether your radio mics have both a jack and XLR output (many do) and just use the spare connection. Instead of going for a desk like a gigrac, have you considered installing the amps out of the way, nice and close to the speakers, and using something like an A+H IDR 4, cloud CX261 or even a behringer zmx 8210? At my old church we had a similar soundcraft spirit powerstation in the lounge and it was amazing how regularly people managed to prod buttons and disconnect the mixer from the amps etc. Another thing you can do if you choose to use the same amps to help things run smoothly is to build a combiner for the outputs from both desks so that no-one will forget to repatch the desks after a Sunday. Sadly this circuit doesn't work on speaker level signals! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOD20 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 It does, but would then need the desk to be switched as it's post gain & HPF (and possibly post eq too depending on how the desk's set up) so probably not a good solution here. I just checked the A&H user manual and according to that ... The direct outputs are set pre-insert, pre-EQ as factory default. This setting means that the recording is not affected by your live fader and EQ changes. Note that you can swap internal jumpers to change this to post-EQ, and post-fade if you preferIt would depend on whether or not someone has changed the internal jumper settings at some point. But the A&H would still need to be switched on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GR1 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I would use either a Studiospares RED503 or an ART Splitcom so that you can feed the radio mic into each PA and they will be isloated from each other. Then there will be no messing about and no problems. The cost is £25+VAT and they can be delivered tomorrow from Studiospares. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Siddons Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 It does, but would then need the desk to be switched as it's post gain & HPF (and possibly post eq too depending on how the desk's set up) so probably not a good solution here. I just checked the A&H user manual and according to that ... The direct outputs are set pre-insert, pre-EQ as factory default. This setting means that the recording is not affected by your live fader and EQ changes. Note that you can swap internal jumpers to change this to post-EQ, and post-fade if you preferIt would depend on whether or not someone has changed the internal jumper settings at some point. But the A&H would still need to be switched on. Does the direct out from the desk still have phantom on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPAman Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 No. It's an output, why would it have phantom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Siddons Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 My thoughts were if it was hard wired like a through on an amplifier then the phantom could get down the output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOD20 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 My thoughts were if it was hard wired like a through on an amplifier then the phantom could get down the output. Direct Outputs are usually on 1/4 inch TRS jack plugs and this is certainly the case here. As a rule, phantom power is only applied to XLR connectors and not to jack plugs to prevent problems with phantom power on line level equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Siddons Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 My thoughts were if it was hard wired like a through on an amplifier then the phantom could get down the output. Direct Outputs are usually on 1/4 inch TRS jack plugs and this is certainly the case here. As a rule, phantom power is only applied to XLR connectors and not to jack plugs to prevent problems with phantom power on line level equipment. Yes I knew that just over thinking the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Forget the direct outputs if you want to keep it as simple as possible as the main desk would need to be switched on, and not have had the gain/pad/polarity/HPF fiddled with on the main desk (as the GL2400's direct outs are post all thest controls) - too many things to go wrong. Cheapest option: simply repatch between mixers as/when needed. Cheap option: switchbox Best option: splitter (as discussed already) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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