karl Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I'm sure similar stuff has been discussed before but my searching wasn't terribly productive. I should also point out that sound isn't my strong suit, I'm more at home with lighting. A smallish local venue (village hall size) has a show relay system that consists of: A condenser mic suspended from a roof truss about 3m forward of the front of the stage and about 4.5m above stage height. This mic requires a AA battery and has a 1/4" (6.35mm) plug. There is then a 30m cable with a 1/4" socket on one end and a 1/4" plug on the other. This cable has a single core and a braided screen. It runs back to the control room at the back of the hall. The cable plugs into an aged Radio Shack PA amp (can't recall the model). The amps output goes to what looks like a home made box with switches and dials to control distribution to the various back stage areas. This has worked adequately for some time. The sound quality isn't great but it's good enough for a show relay. The main problem is the need to replace the battery from time to time. Because of the mics location what should be a two minute job usually takes about half and hour. Any way some recent electrical work has damaged the extension cable. My first thought was to get some new stuff similar to the existing cable and make up a replacement. But before I do I just thought I'd see if anybody has any ideas for improving the set up. Would it be possible to use a different sort of mic that doesn't need batteries with the existing amp? Would XLR cables with XLR to 1/4" adapters be a better option. Could the mic (or an alternative one) be sited some where more convenient? I'm not looking to completely redo the entire system but as I'm going to have to replace the cable I thought I'd check what options there are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timd Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 You really want to replace the cable with two core and screen mic cable, or install cable if diameter is an issue. That way you can pass phantom power to a mic so it won't need batteries. Since you've got a mic with a jack plug, you'll want a decent new one with XLR and that takes phantom power. CPC sell some very cheap miniature shotguns that should do the job nicely, but I can't find them right now. I'd also look at a Behringer Shark on the control end, which combines a phantom injector, preamp, gate and compressor (as well as feedback suppressor, but that really shouldn't be needed) so the output can be fed line level into whatever amp and speaker setup you might want to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwright2104 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I'd suggest replacing the cabling from mic point to control room with a balanced XLR line.This allows you to use a standard condenser microphone, such as this.and with the Behringer Shark FBQ100 it will supply phantom power for the condenser from the control room and will give you noise gate, compressor, delay, and eq all in one small unit. Means no more batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathanhill Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Procure a mic pre-amp with phantom power, and a new microphone. Something like this: http://www.studiospa.../?source=215_74 This would power a condenser mic and give you control over the gain. Any cheap condenser would be fine, as long as it can run from an external phantom power source. Replace the cable with balanced mic cable. Doh! Too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Had good results with this dangly microphone http://cpc.farnell.com/MP33868 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Thought one - cheapest - replace the cheapo battery powered mic with a standard unbalanced dynamic mic and fix the cable run. Better: use a balanced dynamic mic, change the cable to standard mic cable, and get a transformer to convert balanced to unbalanced for the amp, which will almost certainly not have a balanced input. Better still: As above but get a Behringer Shark as recommended above. It'll make a vast difference. Even better: As above a higher quality mic which can be phantom powered from the shark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomHoward Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Thought one - cheapest - replace the cheapo battery powered mic with a standard unbalanced dynamic mic and fix the cable run. Better... Better still...These reflect my thoughts as well - there isn't really a vast need for a high quality condensor - an acceptable quality dynamic will work for a show relay, and I would imagine most people's show relays (even in bigger venues) are sometimes cobbled together in a similar manner. I'd replace it with a dynamic mic, and replace the cable - especially if the PA amp does have a balanced / XLR input. We have the Behringer Shark installed on our show relay for a little bit of compression - the difference between the 'really loud' and the 'really quiet' - stops you getting deafened by the applause or large chorus numbers after you've turned it all the wall up for the mumbling bit parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadhippy Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 cheapskate option,replace the cable and also run in a bit of cat 5 to remote the battery into the control room Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishCol Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 cheapskate option,replace the cable and also run in a bit of cat 5 to remote the battery into the control room How much do you save vs buying a dynamic mic? (inc labour) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadhippy Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 How much do you save vs buying a dynamic mic? (inc labour) About the cost of a suitable dynamic mic,its no harder pulling 2 cables in than it is one and a lump of cat 5 can easily be scrounged only thing left to buy is a battery box,or hold the wires on with an elastic band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishCol Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 How much do you save vs buying a dynamic mic? (inc labour) About the cost of a suitable dynamic mic,its no harder pulling 2 cables in than it is one and a lump of cat 5 can easily be scrounged only thing left to buy is a battery box,or hold the wires on with an elastic band These kind of solutions annoy me What about the next guy who comes along and says WTF?No offence, I know it's hypothetical. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadhippy Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I know it's hypothetical.is it? id rather have a nice easy accessible battery to change rather than messing about on the top of a ladder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishCol Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I know it's hypothetical.is it? id rather have a nice easy accessible battery to change rather than messing about on the top of a ladder I'd rather have a dynamic mic and not worry bout battery ever again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timd Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I'd rather have a small shotgun condenser with the correct pickup pattern to catch lots of stage and less of the audience, given that it's positioned 3m into the audience. Probably just as cheap as a dynamic and much better suited. I'd also pull in a cat5 at the same time, incredibly useful should you want anything that needs controlling there in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljoshua Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Devil's Advocate here, what about the voltage drop over the cable if you were to remote the Battery? Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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