erroneousblack Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Don't think the scaffolders working over the road from me are that fussed about regulations, twice the height of my third floor room, and not a harness in sight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madorangepanda Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Take a photo, making sure to get anything that identifies their company and send it to info@vertikal.net Include death wish in the subject line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ83 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 If all the correct collective safety measures are in place like toe-boards, guard rails etc then why (legally) would you need personal protection that may introduce additional hazards? Or am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainwave-generator Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 As Russ83 has said, and contrary to common belief... wearing a harness does not make work safe.In fact, dare I say it, wearing a harness can make work more dangerous.Personal Protective Equipment is to be worn only when a risk cannot be controlled in another way. If you have proper walkways with toe boards and guard rails there is no need to be wearing a harness is there? Next thing you'll be saying if you live in a top floor apartment you need to wear fall arrest to put your washing out on the balcony. Furthermore, fall arrest is only of value if the anchor to which you are attached to can safely take the load placed on it in the event of a fall. That's where 'clipping on' can create a greater danger than not. If you clip on to a scaffold structure which cannot bear the load of a fall, one possible outcome is that when you fall off, you proceed to dismantle the structure by force, and everybody else dies too. At least if you just fall off it you don't take the structure with you. Whilst the entertainment industry has had a big push in recent years to encourage people to 'clip on', unfortunately people have taken this to mean "If I clip on, I am safe". This is completely untrue. The reality is that you must clip on with suitable equipment, at enough height for such equipment to deploy, clipping onto a structure which will be able to take the forces applied in a fall without either collapsing or falling over. Furthermore, you must have suitably competent and equipped people around you that can rescue you in the event that you fall and are suspended by your fall arrest system. A harness is not the only method of securing you against falls from height - there are a wide range of options available and PPE is the LAST method of choice. As I said above, PPE is a control measure added where no other measures can be used, not something you should automatically wear all the time. I'm sure there are many scaffolders out there showing unsafe practices, but 'no harness' alone does not mean 'not safe'. If 'no harness' meant 'not safe', you would need to wear one to go upstairs. There are plenty other methods for being safe at height, and plenty of reasons not to wear a harness. It's just ONE method and needs as much review before it's deployment as any other method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erroneousblack Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 As I went out for my lunch, several of them were working while just standing on the pipes, toe boards? Not even walkways! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Difficult to give a definitive response as during build things are different from when using scaff as access. From experience any decent company working in London will cover themselves belt'n'braces style on safety. Impossible to work from walkways when constructing walkways, sort of thing. If you are ever in doubt then HSE has a report line which can be found on their website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I've removed a lot of OT bickering.Play nice or don't play - please. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgerlel Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I agree that harness are not always the answer but it also the case that when you are working there is not always a suitable anchor point . We have been using Jordon clamps for the past year or so and they work well. http://www.scaffoldingsupplies.co.uk/images/shop/more/340x273_125372040513188.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImagineerTom Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 erm..... simply listing a type of clamp isn't the answer - you'll need to make sure it's attached to something secure and suitable. For your answer to make any sense or be of any worth you need to explain how you choose your points as well as why you choose to use a perticular type of clamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainwave-generator Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I agree that harness are not always the answer but it also the case that when you are working there is not always a suitable anchor point . We have been using Jordon clamps for the past year or so and they work well. http://www.scaffoldingsupplies.co.uk/images/shop/more/340x273_125372040513188.jpg Jordan clamps are fine for what they are (although whether they're rated as anchor points is another thing altogether). However, what isn't a fact is whether what you're fixing it to can support the load. Everything in the system must be rated to take the fall, not just any one component. So if the SWL of the bar you fix it to it 50kg, you're most likely going down, REGARDLESS of what the SWL of the clamp is. In addition to this of course, another thing I didn't even go into, was the fact that even if you do fall off, and you are wearing fall arrest kit, and it is hooked into a suitable anchor point, and it does arrest your fall and safely prevent you hitting the deck... then what? Unless there is a plan in place to rescue you from your suspension, it's all in vain. You can die of suspension trauma just as easily as you can die from a fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgerlel Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Well in answer to your reply we use this clamp as it is BS accredited (BSEN795) for use as a over head anchor point.Also this type of clamp are mentioned in the HSE Research Report 302.As for a secure point that would depend on the structure and to be quite honest if you cant make that call you should not be erecting scaffolding.As for the general chat of this thread you could use safety nets or fall arrest mats both of which we have used but as with all these safety devises its what works for the job in hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erroneousblack Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 They're back this morning, and are now sporting harness's... not that they've got them hooked to anything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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