Marb Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Hi, I'm currently a university student - studying Physics - who does a lot of sound and lighting in my spare time. The student union technical society are great, and there are opportunities to do PASMA, IPAF, Safety Passport etc. through them. I was wondering however about electrical qualifications. I've completed in-house PAT test training, though I'd be interested in doing some other qualifications to enable me to design/test temporary power systems and to work more safely with installed power. I have spare time in the holidays where I could complete such courses - though obviously I have a degree to do too, so I can't spend 2 years training to be a qualified electrician. I've had a look at some of the C&G qualifications but I'm not really sure I understand what each one would be training me to do. Is there anyone with the knowledge and experience to advise on which courses would make sense to take, and what I would be able to do when I'd completed them? Thanks in advance, Marb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 The list I put together a year or so ago (and so is out of date) is this: •City & Guilds 2330 Technical Certificate In Electro technical Technology level 2 •City & Guilds 2330 Technical Certificate In Electro technical Technology level 3 (replaced by 2357?)•C&G 2382 Level 3 Certificate in the Requirements for Electrical Installations •C&G 2392 Level 2 Certificate in Inspection, Testing and Certification.•C&G 2391 Level 3 Certificate in Inspection, Testing and Certification. •NVQ at level 3 in electrical installation (+ AM2)•JIB card (+ Electrotechnical Certification Scheme)•Competent persons scheme –BRE Certification Limited –British Standards Institution (BSI) –ELECSA Limited –NAPIT Registration Limited –NICEIC Group Ltd.•C&G 2377 Level 3 Certificate for the Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment (PAT) 2382 will help you understand the 17th edition regulations, and C&G2392 or 2391 (level 2 and 3 test & inspection) might well be useful. Neither is anywhere near the level of study you are presently at. My experience of training providers has not been too positive when it comes to those who aren't following the long list of courses shown above. There is almost a feeling that if you do not follow this path to some extent, then you can't be an "electrician". The same providers were very cagey about "what you can do". They expected apprenticed work and all the courses to be taken before any real responsibility could be assumed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marb Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Simon - is the list of qualifications required to be certified as an 'electrician'? Which of these are likely to be most useful while doing live events (working with installed power in theatres/venues and temporary distribution with generators in fields)? Sorry to keep asking questions but I'm relatively new to all this, keen to learn and very confused! Marb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Marb, This seems to be the range of courses and training, work activities and scheme membership that seems to be needed before you are recognised as a "qualified electrician". There have been some short courses for BS7909 (standard for temorary power distribution - see http://www.7909.org.uk/training.htm ) but no national accredited course. This is a pity, as it would be most useful. However, if you were to start with no electrical experience, it could well be argued that you need all of the C&G courses to give the breadth of knowledge needed to safely design test and deploy big temporary power systems. I'm guessing the market isn't quite big enough for such a course, or that the cost / level of pre knowledge / acceptance as a "real electrician's qualification" / time taken / number of suitable trainers etc. would be negative factors. You could see if any of the training on the 7909 site is available or suitable... Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marb Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Simon, I'm not hoping to install massive systems, but with things like earthing generators, I understand the basic theory but wouldn't know where to start actually carrying it out. This obviously isn't an area where muddling through and guessing would be at all safe, appropriate or legal, so I was hoping there might be some sort of short-ish course I could do to help me learn. Would one of the BS7909 ones be suitable do you think? If the answer is 'you're not a proper electrician, don't do it' then that's fine and I'll accept that - but if there's a way I can learn to safely do some electrical work then that's something I'd be interested in. Marb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 This is where it gets slightly difficult... and the reason why seemingly innocent electrical queries on Blue Room occasionally blow up into raging arguments;-) I'm sure a one day 7909 course would be useful (not sure if any are running at present), but it does rather rely on you understanding power distribution and electrical principles. Most of those who go on such courses already know the background, so it becomes useful extra information and they are able to see where fixed and temporary installation practices agree or differ. If someone is starting from scratch, such a course would probably introduce more questions than answers. If you can find a 7909 course, try it out, but you may well benefit from a 17th course, and one or both of the test and meaurement ones. What the electrical industry seems very wary of (and probably for good reason) is having a one day course in (say) electrical installation for kitchen fitters that apparently circumvents doing the rest. Have a chat with your local C&G training people and see what they have to offer... Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marb Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Thanks Simon - I definitely don't want to start doing things that I'm not competent to do, I'll look into taking a 7909 course (and hopefully I understand most of the basic electrical concepts) but I shall take advice from the C&G trainers. Marb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebigcheese Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I had a letter recently from BECTU address to all members of the Lighting Tech division. Apparently there has been some demand from employers about approved electrical training. They will be trailing a two-day course "which is effectively the BS7909" in March and then seeking feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 What the electrical industry seems very wary of (and probably for good reason) is having a one day course in (say) electrical installation for kitchen fitters that apparently circumvents doing the rest. Oh I don't know. I'm sure if they thought they could introduce a 'PART Q' scheme which people would have to pay £100s a year to be part of, they'd jump at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason.fallon Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Hi Marb Speaking as a qualified electrician who spend 4 years serving my time between on/off the job training, I think the best advice I could give is to spend some time working with an electrical contractor. The majority of the knowledge I aquired throughout my apprenticeship was from the people that I was working with. The college part obviously helped explain furthur but the bulk of the valuable knowledge/experience was definately from the tradespeople that I was fortunate enough to work alongside. I'm sure if you got in touch with a contractor, they'd only be too happy to take on an intern for a few weeks. Otherwise, I can only speak for Ireland but the standard of the courses over here are far from being comprehensive enough to instill confidence in somebody to go about electrical work, even in a small part. You seem to have the right idea anyway.....if your not certain about something, leave it alone. Thats something that electricians of any level will abide by Hope this helps Regards Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigclive Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I'm sure if you got in touch with a contractor, they'd only be too happy to take on an intern for a few weeks. Let's not start polluting the electrical industry with this "Internship" free labour krap. If you're stupid enough to work for nothing then all you'll be doing is denying yourself and someone else a proper apprenticeship. Either do a full apprenticeship and get a proper trade or don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_korman Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 There's a 1 day 7909 course available here: http://www.technicaltrainingsolutions.co.uk/courses/bs7909-temporary-installations-370.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 There's a 1 day 7909 course available here: At least they are upfront about the prerequisites... For candidates expecting to gain the necessary understanding to allow them to do work in temporary installations, an understanding of electrical principles together with an appreciation of electrical installation working practices is a pre-requisite of the course, and these participants should possess a recent City & Guilds 2382 qualification (IEE Wiring Regulations, BS7671). For studio managers, production directors and other non-electrical candidates who need to gain an understanding of the Standard without the need to actually perform electrical work in temporary installations, there are no pre-requisites to the course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uniman1 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I've been working in the industry for quite a while, first in broadcasting then in live audio. I have worked freelance, employed in a couple of venues and considerable time abroad. I enjoy working on gigs but really would like to have a guaranteed full tie job. I don't want to work in a school/college but the last couple of interviews I have been on with local authority venues have really hinted they wanted a qualified sparks. I have worked with quite a few guys in the past who regard themselves as qualified, and some did work outside doing domestic stuff. I would like to go down this route. Seeing Simons post and reading bits and pieces on many forums, it now seems a very long road. I am fast approaching forty, is an apprenticeship a realistic path? I don't have dependants, but I enjoy my quality of life, equally I can see in the future that the money in theatre and music isn't going to get any better and a real trade to fall back on would be good. What are the possible steps I should be taking. As an aside I really can't see the £3000 for 22 days courses being a very good move, but seems to be the sort of thing on offer. I'd consider my electrical experience pretty good, but probably with some gaps, but paying for a course from the absolute basics seems a waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason.fallon Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Let's not start polluting the electrical industry with this "Internship" free labour krap. If you're stupid enough to work for nothing then all you'll be doing is denying yourself and someone else a proper apprenticeship. Either do a full apprenticeship and get a proper trade or don't. By the sounds of the guys first post, he doesn't really want to do a full apprenticeship hence me suggesting a solution. He could follow your advice and stay at home but I don't think that would help his electrical knowledge. Also this 'free labour krap' can also help people find out if thats the road they want to go down. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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