Why do we use so much lighting?

[Ken Coker]

Focus - we want people to look in specific places, so each specific place needs to be definable

 

Crap practice - no one takes on the Pilbrow/Reid axis and the notion that they might be wrong about areas/warm & cold/painting with light

 

TV - in much the same way Mr. Punter-Director wants a live PA to sound just the like the CD in his sitting room, Mr. P-D wants his shows to look like the ###### "X-Factor"

 

Lack of imagination - we walk into a space with no rigging points or grid. The first thing we do is work out how to put in a free-standing truss. How about saying "Hmm...no points in the roof, how about lighting it from the deck only?".

 

KC

[J Pearce]

I agree with most of what has been said already. To add a few further points:

 

Contrast - we make the stage brighter than necessary in order to make the other bits dark.

 

Reflections - primarily we want to see the side facing the audience. This is side with the missing 4th wall so we'd get no reflections to fill this side if we just lit with onset practicals.

 

Impact/dynamic range - I try to vary between bright and dark and use level as an artistic medium. To go from barely visible to blindingly bright couldn't be achieved with a couple of 100W lamps.

 

Arms race - we struggle to get our colours punching over our facial so we buy bigger brighter lights. The we struggle to get our facial balanced to our colour so we buy...

 

I may return with further thoughts, but I definitely agree with Ken, that too often it's just a lack of imagination.

 

To close, one of my favourite bits of lighting design was by John Rayment for Johnno. There was so little in the rig that we had to grid 3 storage bars to get the rest of the stock out of the way! Very minimal and strikingly beautiful, not much power on stage, every light carefully placed and chosen.

[karl]

Some very interesting and informative posts there, thanks.

 

My original question isn't so much about why we use as many lanterns as we do, although that is an interesting topic in its own right. It was more about why those lanterns need to be so powerful. In real life a room might be lit with a ten 60W bulbs but an equivalent stage set might be lit with twenty 1KW fixtures.

 

I think to summarize the responses there isn't one single reason, it is a number of factors working together:

 

1) We don't always use all of the lanterns at full power.

2) A proportion of the light produced by the lamp in a theatre fixture never makes it out through the lens.

3) The light that does get out is often attenuated by filters, barndoors, etc.

4) Reflected light 'escapes' from a set due to the lack of a ceiling and the fourth wall. Some of this light reaches the audiences eyes (which is what we want) but much is wasted. In a real room light keeps bouncing around until it's all been absorbed.

5) The further away you are from something the less bright it appears.

6) We don't want the audience to feel distant from the action so we brighten the lighting to compensate for point 5.

 

Have I missed anything there?

[HOT PHINGAZ]

Domestic environments have windows and light coloured walls, all light is reflected somewhere. Theatres have black walls (generally) to reduce the reflections and allow control of the light. Thats why they need to be so much brighter.

[revbobuk]

And don't forget that with light, as with sound, perceived brightness is related to power in a logarithmic way - so 1kW is not '17 times brighter' than 60W

[lightsource]

Some very interesting and informative posts there, thanks.

 

My original question isn't so much about why we use as many lanterns as we do, although that is an interesting topic in its own right. It was more about why those lanterns need to be so powerful. In real life a room might be lit with a ten 60W bulbs but an equivalent stage set might be lit with twenty 1KW fixtures.

 

I think to summarize the responses there isn't one single reason, it is a number of factors working together:

 

1) We don't always use all of the lanterns at full power.

2) A proportion of the light produced by the lamp in a theatre fixture never makes it out through the lens.

3) The light that does get out is often attenuated by filters, barndoors, etc.

4) Reflected light 'escapes' from a set due to the lack of a ceiling and the fourth wall. Some of this light reaches the audiences eyes (which is what we want) but much is wasted. In a real room light keeps bouncing around until it's all been absorbed.

5) The further away you are from something the less bright it appears.

6) We don't want the audience to feel distant from the action so we brighten the lighting to compensate for point 5.

 

Have I missed anything there?

 

I think most have...compare the difference between a d0m3stic light and a theatre profile / fresnel. That is the starting point, with the area that is being illuminated

 

Firstly, the d0m3stic light is an omni light with a viewing angle of over 300 degrees, compared to a theatre profile that usually has a beam angle of less than 50 degrees, and sometimes a lot less than that, if wanting to highlight a specific area.

 

Second, in a d0mestic environment, the light bulb would be close to it's surroundings usually less than 3 metres, where as a theatre light may be many metres away from it's target illumination area.

 

Third, the interesting question may be the reverse of your OP, how do we recreate a the effect of a single 100w lightbulb in the middle of a stage with Theatre lights, weather Profiles, Fresnels or floods. How many lights would we need to use to recreate this...

 

The answer may be a 100w light bulb!

[Krislights]

Can of worms! Yeah, I have lit an entire scene from a souped up storm lantern practical, and nothing else, and some of my favourite designs have consisted of lighting a long show with maybe 14 lamps, and every trick in the book, and yet, I have also recreated indoor environments on sound stages, that have to look exactly like the real thing, and it takes alot more than one pendant lamp and the glow from a telly and a window! Paul has a great comment about using light, as in the word "theatre" to add drama to a piece. Here's an idea.. Going from once scene to another within a theatre, bright summer's day to a moonlight scene.. eyes take time to adjust to light levels, add a long slow rise in levels, on transitions. A bit like walking from the foyer, during a break, to going back to plotting, and everything looks wrong and different to when you left it... Hmm. Could also be the type of performance space you are using. In the round sometimes needs Prosc style lighting x 2, or even 3 or 4. I once tried lighting a Theatre show scientifically correct, and it looked terrible, even though it was right! Horses for courses. Wasn't it sesame street that won a tony award for it's lighting? (rosco colours)

Here's a handy one for in the round.. Throw away the classic 45-45-60 degree set up of traditional theatre and go key back and fill telly-style to economise on lamps.

Speaking of 45-45-60.. another one to try. Instead of the usual spread of profiles across the FOH bridges, the sun is a point source, right? (Omitting that the atmosphere is frost) 2 bars of 6 and associated gubbins, one under the other, instead! Works for bright sunlight.

And I'm sick of bad designs where lamps are focussed to the floor, rather than the object.. it's blocking, yes, but the noughts and crosses grid is upstage of the actor's blocking squares! by about One square, and spill onto set. No easy way round that, apart from sideways or steep. Including floor up....

 

Some very interesting and informative posts there, thanks.

 

My original question isn't so much about why we use as many lanterns as we do, although that is an interesting topic in its own right. It was more about why those lanterns need to be so powerful. In real life a room might be lit with a ten 60W bulbs but an equivalent stage set might be lit with twenty 1KW fixtures.

 

I think to summarize the responses there isn't one single reason, it is a number of factors working together:

 

1) We don't always use all of the lanterns at full power.

2) A proportion of the light produced by the lamp in a theatre fixture never makes it out through the lens.

3) The light that does get out is often attenuated by filters, barndoors, etc.

4) Reflected light 'escapes' from a set due to the lack of a ceiling and the fourth wall. Some of this light reaches the audiences eyes (which is what we want) but much is wasted. In a real room light keeps bouncing around until it's all been absorbed.

5) The further away you are from something the less bright it appears.

6) We don't want the audience to feel distant from the action so we brighten the lighting to compensate for point 5.

 

Have I missed anything there?

 

I think most have...compare the difference between a d0m3stic light and a theatre profile / fresnel. That is the starting point, with the area that is being illuminated

 

Firstly, the d0m3stic light is an omni light with a viewing angle of over 300 degrees, compared to a theatre profile that usually has a beam angle of less than 50 degrees, and sometimes a lot less than that, if wanting to highlight a specific area.

 

Second, in a d0mestic environment, the light bulb would be close to it's surroundings usually less than 3 metres, where as a theatre light may be many metres away from it's target illumination area.

 

Third, the interesting question may be the reverse of your OP, how do we recreate a the effect of a single 100w lightbulb in the middle of a stage with Theatre lights, weather Profiles, Fresnels or floods. How many lights would we need to use to recreate this...

 

The answer may be a 100w light bulb!

It's called a "spacelight" rented from ARRI. 5 elements of rings of 6 x1KW linear lamps, in a diffused tube, a bit like a long chinese lantern, and should do you. Often seen in film studios, in large numbers, hanging in a grid formation. What colour are the walls? Black, probably! Therefore no bounce, and you will need to re-create the bounce, and may need more than 1..

 

Can of worms! Yeah, I have lit an entire scene from a souped up storm lantern practical, and nothing else, and some of my favourite designs have consisted of lighting a long show with maybe 14 lamps, and every trick in the book, and yet, I have also recreated indoor environments on sound stages, that have to look exactly like the real thing, and it takes alot more than one pendant lamp and the glow from a telly and a window! Paul has a great comment about using light, as in the word "theatre" to add drama to a piece. Here's an idea.. Going from once scene to another within a theatre, bright summer's day to a moonlight scene.. eyes take time to adjust to light levels, add a long slow rise in levels, on transitions. A bit like walking from the foyer, during a break, to going back to plotting, and everything looks wrong and different to when you left it... Hmm. Could also be the type of performance space you are using. In the round sometimes needs Prosc style lighting x 2, or even 3 or 4. I once tried lighting a Theatre show scientifically correct, and it looked terrible, even though it was right! Horses for courses. Wasn't it sesame street that won a tony award for it's lighting? (rosco colours)

Here's a handy one for in the round.. Throw away the classic 45-45-60 degree set up of traditional theatre and go key back and fill telly-style to economise on lamps.

Speaking of 45-45-60.. another one to try. Instead of the usual spread of profiles across the FOH bridges, the sun is a point source, right? (Omitting that the atmosphere is frost) 2 bars of 6 and associated gubbins, one under the other, instead! Works for bright sunlight.

And I'm sick of bad designs where lamps are focussed to the floor, rather than the object.. it's blocking, yes, but the noughts and crosses grid is upstage of the actor's blocking squares! by about One square, and spill onto set. No easy way round that, apart from sideways or steep. Including floor up....

 

Some very interesting and informative posts there, thanks.

 

My original question isn't so much about why we use as many lanterns as we do, although that is an interesting topic in its own right. It was more about why those lanterns need to be so powerful. In real life a room might be lit with a ten 60W bulbs but an equivalent stage set might be lit with twenty 1KW fixtures.

 

I think to summarize the responses there isn't one single reason, it is a number of factors working together:

 

1) We don't always use all of the lanterns at full power.

2) A proportion of the light produced by the lamp in a theatre fixture never makes it out through the lens.

3) The light that does get out is often attenuated by filters, barndoors, etc.

4) Reflected light 'escapes' from a set due to the lack of a ceiling and the fourth wall. Some of this light reaches the audiences eyes (which is what we want) but much is wasted. In a real room light keeps bouncing around until it's all been absorbed.

5) The further away you are from something the less bright it appears.

6) We don't want the audience to feel distant from the action so we brighten the lighting to compensate for point 5.

 

Have I missed anything there?

 

I think most have...compare the difference between a d0m3stic light and a theatre profile / fresnel. That is the starting point, with the area that is being illuminated

 

Firstly, the d0m3stic light is an omni light with a viewing angle of over 300 degrees, compared to a theatre profile that usually has a beam angle of less than 50 degrees, and sometimes a lot less than that, if wanting to highlight a specific area.

 

Second, in a d0mestic environment, the light bulb would be close to it's surroundings usually less than 3 metres, where as a theatre light may be many metres away from it's target illumination area.

 

Third, the interesting question may be the reverse of your OP, how do we recreate a the effect of a single 100w lightbulb in the middle of a stage with Theatre lights, weather Profiles, Fresnels or floods. How many lights would we need to use to recreate this...

 

The answer may be a 100w light bulb!

It's called a "spacelight" rented from ARRI. 5 elements of rings of 6 x1KW linear lamps, in a diffused tube, a bit like a long chinese lantern, and should do you. Often seen in film studios, in large numbers, hanging in a grid formation. What colour are the walls? Black, probably! Therefore no bounce, and you will need to re-create the bounce, and may need more than 1..

How to make Orange: use a lamp that was too big, and then have to dim it! Small lights are sometimes better. Closer, as someone quite rightly said! Theatre white is 1800K? Domestic bulbs (here we go..) Lamps, for sake of argument.. (don't!!) Daylight is anything from 12000K down, and IK is a candle! Look at Lee's website. And that's before we start adding pretty colours, or is it straw and steel blue, or my favourite, pale violet/202 mix, and 204?... Food for thought. Every show, and every LD is different. Maybe I should write a book!

 

Can of worms! Yeah, I have lit an entire scene from a souped up storm lantern practical, and nothing else, and some of my favourite designs have consisted of lighting a long show with maybe 14 lamps, and every trick in the book, and yet, I have also recreated indoor environments on sound stages, that have to look exactly like the real thing, and it takes alot more than one pendant lamp and the glow from a telly and a window! Paul has a great comment about using light, as in the word "theatre" to add drama to a piece. Here's an idea.. Going from once scene to another within a theatre, bright summer's day to a moonlight scene.. eyes take time to adjust to light levels, add a long slow rise in levels, on transitions. A bit like walking from the foyer, during a break, to going back to plotting, and everything looks wrong and different to when you left it... Hmm. Could also be the type of performance space you are using. In the round sometimes needs Prosc style lighting x 2, or even 3 or 4. I once tried lighting a Theatre show scientifically correct, and it looked terrible, even though it was right! Horses for courses. Wasn't it sesame street that won a tony award for it's lighting? (rosco colours)

Here's a handy one for in the round.. Throw away the classic 45-45-60 degree set up of traditional theatre and go key back and fill telly-style to economise on lamps.

Speaking of 45-45-60.. another one to try. Instead of the usual spread of profiles across the FOH bridges, the sun is a point source, right? (Omitting that the atmosphere is frost) 2 bars of 6 and associated gubbins, one under the other, instead! Works for bright sunlight.

And I'm sick of bad designs where lamps are focussed to the floor, rather than the object.. it's blocking, yes, but the noughts and crosses grid is upstage of the actor's blocking squares! by about One square, and spill onto set. No easy way round that, apart from sideways or steep. Including floor up....

 

Some very interesting and informative posts there, thanks.

 

My original question isn't so much about why we use as many lanterns as we do, although that is an interesting topic in its own right. It was more about why those lanterns need to be so powerful. In real life a room might be lit with a ten 60W bulbs but an equivalent stage set might be lit with twenty 1KW fixtures.

 

I think to summarize the responses there isn't one single reason, it is a number of factors working together:

 

1) We don't always use all of the lanterns at full power.

2) A proportion of the light produced by the lamp in a theatre fixture never makes it out through the lens.

3) The light that does get out is often attenuated by filters, barndoors, etc.

4) Reflected light 'escapes' from a set due to the lack of a ceiling and the fourth wall. Some of this light reaches the audiences eyes (which is what we want) but much is wasted. In a real room light keeps bouncing around until it's all been absorbed.

5) The further away you are from something the less bright it appears.

6) We don't want the audience to feel distant from the action so we brighten the lighting to compensate for point 5.

 

Have I missed anything there?

 

I think most have...compare the difference between a d0m3stic light and a theatre profile / fresnel. That is the starting point, with the area that is being illuminated

 

Firstly, the d0m3stic light is an omni light with a viewing angle of over 300 degrees, compared to a theatre profile that usually has a beam angle of less than 50 degrees, and sometimes a lot less than that, if wanting to highlight a specific area.

 

Second, in a d0mestic environment, the light bulb would be close to it's surroundings usually less than 3 metres, where as a theatre light may be many metres away from it's target illumination area.

 

Third, the interesting question may be the reverse of your OP, how do we recreate a the effect of a single 100w lightbulb in the middle of a stage with Theatre lights, weather Profiles, Fresnels or floods. How many lights would we need to use to recreate this...

 

The answer may be a 100w light bulb!

It's called a "spacelight" rented from ARRI. 5 elements of rings of 6 x1KW linear lamps, in a diffused tube, a bit like a long chinese lantern, and should do you. Often seen in film studios, in large numbers, hanging in a grid formation. What colour are the walls? Black, probably! Therefore no bounce, and you will need to re-create the bounce, and may need more than 1..

How to make Orange: use a lamp that was too big, and then have to dim it! Small lights are sometimes better. Closer, as someone quite rightly said! Theatre white is 1800K? Domestic bulbs (here we go..) Lamps, for sake of argument.. (don't!!) Daylight is anything from 12000K down, and IK is a candle! Look at Lee's website. And that's before we start adding pretty colours, or is it straw and steel blue, or my favourite, pale violet/202 mix, and 204?... Food for thought. Every show, and every LD is different. Maybe I should write a book!

 

Sorry chaps.. send button went mad.. To light this here room? Why the hell not use a 60 w Lamp! Better still, use a 1KW version, (GES Patt 60 guts?) for theatrical effect. At least all the angles would be true!

 

Different shades of white and orange can be great fun, especially with different kinds of lamps, and use of dimmers. Try disappearing off to Europe, with 1200 parcans, and odds and ends and forgetting the gel file! Looked great, with the odd bit of filmy blue I had in my toolbox.. grin! You don't see light, you see what it is reflected off of, useful to bear in mind. I'll be the one attacking shiny barndoors with Matt Plasticote Black. and Blackwrap. Nothing worse than being distracted by a veritable star-scape of a lighting rig....Shiny barndoors are the quickest way I can think of to light the walls...

[david.elsbury]

Interesting post, but how about some judicious use of the delete key... it makes it very hard to read! ;)

[DonkiDonki]

Some serious over-quoting going on here;possibly a forum record?